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26 Man Rosters

Mr. Radpants

Trog Five Standing By
Can we move to a 26 man roster? MLB recently made this change and I think it’s a good one, especially in a league with DH enabled.

Obviously it’s the middle of a season, so this would be an off-season change. That’s said, it could also impact free agency decisions, so starting a thread now.
 

hayvis

Will-Gnome Member
I'm all for buying in another player to help my already expensive team crush the little shit heads with no money. So it's a yes from me.
 

hayvis

Will-Gnome Member
Serious question, not trolling, would we need to increase the player pool by a little bit to compensate? Since we went back to almost full human control everyone is fighting over scraps and this would obviously be exacerbated. Or we cool with scrubs and AAAA players in most teams. Not complaining but personally if we increased roster size I would like to see that done with quality players.
 

hayvis

Will-Gnome Member
No, the definition of who is AAAA would change.

Then won't this drive up AAAA player price and make the league more expensive, favouring the bigger teams? Just asking, not against the idea. I actually don't know what would happen to the economics. Does @Yankee151 have a good idea about that? Just want it explained.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
Serious question, not trolling, would we need to increase the player pool by a little bit to compensate? Since we went back to almost full human control everyone is fighting over scraps and this would obviously be exacerbated. Or we cool with scrubs and AAAA players in most teams. Not complaining but personally if we increased roster size I would like to see that done with quality players.
Check Free Agency.... there are STILL a bunch of very useful players out there.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
While we are at rules... Can we go back to old IFA rules?

If you want to be concerned with the player pool, there are 19 guys just sitting in IFA. It's going to mess with the talent pool if a bunch of guys every year just sit in there vs. play in A ball.
 

Yankee151

Hot Girl Summer
I abstain on this, I'd benefit from 26 but I see the arguments behind keeping it at 25

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

Mr. Radpants

Trog Five Standing By
Being that it's a slow week and we've not reached our requisite number of new OOTP threads for the month on this dead NCAA Football vidya game site, jd have requested we take a vote on whether to allow additional pitching roles.

Some background for those new to the game, particularly our friend(s) across the pond:

A Major League Baseball roster is a roster of players allowed, by league agreement, to play for their respective Major League Baseball(MLB) team. As of the 2019 MLB season, there were generally two types of rosters, the "active roster" of 25 players and the "expanded roster" of 40 players. The active roster size is expected to expand to 26 players beginning in the 2020 season.
Since 1910, when teams were first allowed to carry players under contract in excess of those allowed to participate in regular season games, the latter has been called the "active roster." With exceptions through the years for varying economic conditions (primarily during World War I, the Great Depression, post-World War II, and from 1986 to 1989 when the limit was set at 24 because of rising player salaries), the active roster has allowed up to 25 players to participate for a Major League team within specified dates, currently Opening Day to September 1. In 1968, the 25-player maximum for active rosters was made a part of the first collective bargaining agreement (CBA) between the major leagues and the Major League Baseball Players Association (MLBPA). Since 1977, teams have been required to carry a minimum of 24 players on their active rosters as well.

Active rosters include the starting eight (National League) or nine (American League) position players, pitchers, and reserve players on the team. Players on the active roster are also on the 40-man roster. These players are generally the only ones who dress in uniform and are the only ones who may take the field in a game at any time.

Typically, in modern-day play, an active roster will consist of five starting pitchers, seven relief pitchers, two catchers, six infielders, and five outfielders. Teams can vary this somewhat according to preference and circumstance, and indeed the "typical" roster makeup has changed somewhat over the years. (Starting rotations used to consist of four pitchers, not five, well into the 1970s; third-string catchers used to be much more common; many other minor variations exist.) In the American League, a full-time designated hitter (DH) is usually classified as either an infielder or an outfielder, not a DH, because most DHs do play defensive positions from time to time.

Since the 2012 season, teams have been allowed 26-player active rosters for "day-night" doubleheaders—two games scheduled on the same day, but with the stadium cleared between games, and separate tickets sold for each game—as long as the doubleheaders have been scheduled with at least 48-hours advanced notice.[1] Teams are also allowed a 26th player for games played at neutral sites, such as the MLB Little League Classic.[2]

Changes effective 2020Edit
On March 14, 2019, MLB and the MLBPA reached an agreement on midterm changes to the then-current CBA that will affect future roster sizes. Effective with the 2020 season, teams will be allowed 26-man active rosters from the start of the season through August 31. A joint MLB/MLBPA committee will make recommendations on limits to the sizes of pitching staffs that, if adopted, will also take effect in 2020. MLB has proposed a limit of 13 pitchers through August 31 and 14 from September 1 to the end of the regular season. The agreement also calls for the introduction of a playing rule that places severe limits on pitching by position players.

Each team must designate players as either "position players" or "pitchers" before the start of the season, and that designation cannot be changed during the season. Only players who are designated as "pitchers" will be allowed to pitch in any regular-season or postseason game, with the following exceptions:[3][4][5]

  • One team is ahead by at least 7 runs when the player has assumed a pitching role.
  • The game is in extra innings.
  • The player serving as pitcher has earned the status of "two-way player".
A player earns two-way status by satisfying both of the following criteria, in either the current season or the immediately preceding season:[3][5]

  • Pitching at least 20 MLB innings.
  • Playing in at least 20 MLB games as a position player or designated hitter, with at least three plate appearances in each of the 20 games.
If this rule had been in effect in 2019, no MLB player would have qualified for two-way status that season. The most obvious candidate for this status, Shohei Ohtani, did not pitch in the 2019 season during his recovery from Tommy John surgery, meaning he must re-qualify for two-way status when he returns to pitching in 2020. As MLB.com writer David Adler put it,[3]

Essentially, if the Angels plan on Ohtani hitting and pitching in the 2020 season, they'll have to designate him as a pitcher. There's no restriction on players who've been designated pitchers as far as letting them bat -- it's only players carrying a position player designation who cannot also pitch. . . . Once he reaches the 20 innings pitched and 20 batting games thresholds, he'll immediately qualify as a two-way player under the rule for the rest of '20 and all of '21. At that point, the Angels would potentially gain an extra “pitcher” spot on their roster.​
 

Orlando

Well-Known Member
Utopia Moderator
But won’t cut any advisements
Right? I don’t get what they are trying to solve with all these pace changes. Is shaving a couple mins really going to draw more people? Playoff games are the only painfully long games.
 

hayvis

Will-Gnome Member
Most of these guys will have already been on 40-man rosters, too.

I'm not against 26 man rosters, but the change will effect more than you are saying because of the way people will prepare for the season. This won't be a case of people promoting backups. It will change the strategy, likely raise prices, and increase demand for top players. Why use a AAAA player as an extra RP when you can get an ace who won't be pissed of you stashed him? Or why not buy the best outfield platoon possible with an extra all-star veteran (again, you aren't going to make him mad by shoving him in AAA for later)? As I said, I don't care one way or another, but I would have thought this is pretty obvious. But no.... Apparently I'm the dumb one. Actually I think @Yankee151 agreed with me before he realised that I didn't mind either way and was just pointing out the obvious (as he's geared his whole budget to win now and squeezed the lemon it's not hard to see why).

Smaller rosters mean using more inventive ways to provide backup. It's not necessarily a bad thing to add a roster slot, but will definitely make it easier to throw money at a team's weakness to solve a problem.
 
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Mr. Radpants

Trog Five Standing By
The extra roster spots can be used for a reliever or a utility player, or wasted basically. No one wanted my 26th best player this year (Grosvenor)
 

hayvis

Will-Gnome Member
The extra roster spots can be used for a reliever or a utility player, or wasted basically. No one wanted my 26th best player this year (Grosvenor)

You telling me there's no strategically useful things you can do with a 26th roster spot?
 

Mr. Radpants

Trog Five Standing By
There is. Strategically, it can be used for depth — Extra utility IF or OF, or extra reliever. What else would you do with it?
 

hayvis

Will-Gnome Member
There is. Strategically, it can be used for depth — Extra utility IF or OF, or extra reliever. What else would you do with it?

It changes the strategy. I am always looking for utility guys that can play infield and outfield. I would probably use the spot to run an extra big bat platoon, and run less guys that can play lots of positions, as they aren't the most talented bats in general. In terms of relief pitching, the more players you have, the easier it is. I have a strategy where I try people out, shift them and change their roles according to stats. This basically makes it easier, and I wouldn't be surprised if some people run a lot more gimmicks, as the more relievers, the easier that is to do. I could go on and on. The main thing though is that it allows for big budget teams to spend money to band aid a weakness. The less money you have then the more active roster slots, the less that suits you. Not everyone is Seoul either and can just slot in scouting discovery no245.

I think in a way, I'm probably for it, as I think I can find a way to use it, but to talk about it as if it doesn't change much is not the sharpest thing I've ever seen on these pages.
 

Mr. Radpants

Trog Five Standing By
Well I’ve played in online leagues with 28 man rosters and I’m telling you it didn’t drastically change the game, but okay. :laughing: I think the advantage for a rebuilding team is twofold:
  • There’s always talent in FA that could be signed for a few mil, platooned or given a shot and then flipped to contenders at the deadline
  • With 26 slots that gives contenders a little more room to play with, maybe making trades more likely
Solid point about gimmick staffs
 

Mr. Radpants

Trog Five Standing By
@Mr. Radpants - we could see people using wrecked players a bit more, as it allows for more resting (which would be a good thing imo)

Good point. I also think the DH always ties up one trog bat and half the league will fall in love with a second trog and waste the spot there. Financially and demand-wise, this could affect the reliever market the most. But we don’t know how many people will use it for a reliever. Has anyone read articles about what MLB teams will use slot 26 on?
 

hayvis

Will-Gnome Member
Well I’ve played in online leagues with 28 man rosters and I’m telling you it didn’t drastically change the game, but okay. :laughing: I think the advantage for a rebuilding team is twofold:
  • There’s always talent in FA that could be signed for a few mil, platooned or given a shot and then flipped to contenders at the deadline
  • With 26 slots that gives contenders a little more room to play with, maybe making trades more likely
Solid point about gimmick staffs

I suppose drastically changing the game is a complete overstatement, but I reckon if ur into strategy it changes it somewhat. The biggest positives for me are lazarusing wrecked players and moar gimmick pitching.
 

hayvis

Will-Gnome Member
I'm definitely liking it the more I think about it though @Mr. Radpants , and am definitely pro. The biggest drawback, is that it allows a lazy quick fix, but I think it's counterbalanced by things you can do on a budget.
 

Mr. Radpants

Trog Five Standing By
Found this:

With the addition of an extra roster spot, however, comes the caveat that teams cannot carry more than 13 pitchers. The Cubs have consistently worked with an eight-man bullpen in recent seasons, so there shouldn't be much change there.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
It changes the strategy.
That's the fun part of it. We've had the same rules (until the IFA/econ changes) for 60+ seasons.

Part of the game that is most interesting is how teams use their rosters. Everyone has their own strategies. I used to ALWAYS have a LOOGY now I never do. I also carry a 11-man pitching staff which I don't think anyone else does. I've seen some teams go with 13-man staffs. Maybe there are some that do 14.... who knows but that is one of my favorite parts of the WBL. There are dozens of different roster constructs you can go with. Just depends on how you build your roster.

At least for my team... I'm going to decide between a LOOGY or another RHH to platoon. I try to have almost all of my bench players platoon hence whey I've always gone 14 hitters and 11 pitchers. I think there is more value in having platoons vs another RP (more impact, keep your hitters fresher) but I've always wondered if I throw my RPs way too much.

In terms of talent pool-- I think I already said it on this thread but check out FA in June. There are a bunch of guys who are above average WBL starters that just sit there. I've signed 4-5 this year. I imagine that will shrink a little although teams seem to prefer promoting from within vs. signing FAs.
 

hayvis

Will-Gnome Member
That's the fun part of it. We've had the same rules (until the IFA/econ changes) for 60+ seasons.

Part of the game that is most interesting is how teams use their rosters. Everyone has their own strategies. I used to ALWAYS have a LOOGY now I never do. I also carry a 11-man pitching staff which I don't think anyone else does. I've seen some teams go with 13-man staffs. Maybe there are some that do 14.... who knows but that is one of my favorite parts of the WBL. There are dozens of different roster constructs you can go with. Just depends on how you build your roster.

At least for my team... I'm going to decide between a LOOGY or another RHH to platoon. I try to have almost all of my bench players platoon hence whey I've always gone 14 hitters and 11 pitchers. I think there is more value in having platoons vs another RP (more impact, keep your hitters fresher) but I've always wondered if I throw my RPs way too much.

In terms of talent pool-- I think I already said it on this thread but check out FA in June. There are a bunch of guys who are above average WBL starters that just sit there. I've signed 4-5 this year. I imagine that will shrink a little although teams seem to prefer promoting from within vs. signing FAs.

Yeah, I check FA all the time. I've picked up a decent AAAA pitcher who just appeared from another league in FA mid season, so I trawl it for finds. Also Kirkpatrick was sitting there this year who I'm about to give a 20 million 2 year extension to if he'll accept - Because power bat and shit fielder seems to be way more rewarded at CF than the other way round. I do think there used to be better FAs mid season before more human players but that's obviously going to happen. I'm looking forward to the change in strategy, as I've said, but I do think the more players on the roster allows for quick fixes for rich teams. I will probably look into wrecked players and more pitching gimmicks as I said before. I'll probably start with pitching as the rest of my team is really good at the moment.

What is a LOOGY?
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
Yeah, I check FA all the time. I've picked up a decent AAAA pitcher who just appeared from another league in FA mid season, so I trawl it for finds. Also Kirkpatrick was sitting there this year who I'm about to give a 20 million 2 year extension to if he'll accept - Because power bat and shit fielder seems to be way more rewarded at CF than the other way round. I do think there used to be better FAs mid season before more human players but that's obviously going to happen. I'm looking forward to the change in strategy, as I've said, but I do think the more players on the roster allows for quick fixes for rich teams. I will probably look into wrecked players and more pitching gimmicks as I said before. I'll probably start with pitching as the rest of my team is really good at the moment.

What is a LOOGY?
Disagree. It will thin out the talent pool a little and add more strategy to how you construct your roster. If you pay close attention to your roster and how to use it, it can be of pretty decent value playing a lefty masher or something similar. It'll help the teams that move around players and look into the margins more.

LOOGY = Lefty one-out guy. Basically a LH pitcher who is just good vs LH batters. The game isn't great with them. The idea is their WAR/IP would be low but WPA high because they pitch in important moments. Work better if your stopper/closer/set up guys are RHP.

I just looked back at a random one I had: Carl Hicks. In '66, he pitched in 52 games and threw 18 innings. 0.3 WAR but 0.6 WPA.
 

hayvis

Will-Gnome Member
Disagree. It will thin out the talent pool a little and add more strategy to how you construct your roster. If you pay close attention to your roster and how to use it, it can be of pretty decent value playing a lefty masher or something similar. It'll help the teams that move around players and look into the margins more.

LOOGY = Lefty one-out guy. Basically a LH pitcher who is just good vs LH batters. The game isn't great with them. The idea is their WAR/IP would be low but WPA high because they pitch in important moments. Work better if your stopper/closer/set up guys are RHP.

I just looked back at a random one I had: Carl Hicks. In '66, he pitched in 52 games and threw 18 innings. 0.3 WAR but 0.6 WPA.

So do you set them as specialists? How do you use them and how does the game handle them?
 
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