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Conference Excretion Thread
- Thread starter Hachiko
- Start date
Renegade
Charge on!
Sounds like there may be an AAC-BYU scheduling alliance or possibly another discussion about BYU joining as football-only. BYU continues to struggle to get home games toward the end of the season. Last year, they had Idaho State and then three road games to finish the year, and with some of the conferences going to 9 conference games, they're having more trouble getting games in general. AAC put out a press statement highlight the series between several AAC schools and BYU, and I've heard that there is more to come in that regard.
Renegade
Charge on!
Not anytime soon.
Rutgers Mike
Dr. Sad
I won't say it doesn't make sense, but it made more sense for them to actually join when you had potentially Boise and SD State joining the Big East and the TV deal hadn't been signed. Where does BYU stand in regards to access to the playoff bowls? Are they in the pool of teams for the G5 bowl?
Renegade
Charge on!
My understanding is that they have no access unless they finish in the Top 10 or something. And their payout is said to be like 1/10th of what a Sun Belt school will get from the payout every year.
This is the upcoming games for the AAC vs BYU. Clearly there's interest from BYU in playing these eastern games, and ESPN has been helping put these together:
UCF:
2014 vs. BYU
Cincinnati:
2015 at BYU
2016 vs. BYU
UConn:
2014 vs. BYU
2015 at BYU
East Carolina:
2015 at BYU
2017 vs. BYU
Houston:
2014 at BYU
Tulane:
2017 at BYU
Last edited:
jamesnathan
Resident Mormon
BYU wants to be able to play in parts of the country where their fans are. The AAC is more accommodating than the SEC, for example, in certain parts of the country.
Wooly, BYU has gotten several PAC-12 teams on the schedule, even in November, because the PAC-12 doesn't want someone having a bye at the end of the year when USC is playing Notre Dame. It hurts them in the middle of the year maybe, but they are getting PAC-12 teams on the schedule. Maybe Cal isn't a quality team for this upcoming season, but there are others. And they did just sign Arizona State to some September games down the road, too.
Wooly, BYU has gotten several PAC-12 teams on the schedule, even in November, because the PAC-12 doesn't want someone having a bye at the end of the year when USC is playing Notre Dame. It hurts them in the middle of the year maybe, but they are getting PAC-12 teams on the schedule. Maybe Cal isn't a quality team for this upcoming season, but there are others. And they did just sign Arizona State to some September games down the road, too.
Rutgers Mike
Dr. Sad
Dumb move on UMass part, unless they are going to go back to FCS football
Rutgers Mike
Dr. Sad
Sure, but who's #14 then? Army for football only?
Rutgers Mike
Dr. Sad
Delaware
goblue96
Disney and Curling Expert
When Edgar Johnson was the AD, there would be no chance in hell that Delaware would make the jump. Edgar enjoyed being the big fish in the little pond. The guy now, Eric Ziady, looks like he wants to move the department forward and using football to do that.
If it was a football only move, Delaware would be stupid enough to make the jump. If the AAC forces them to move the entire department, there is no way Delaware makes the move. The other sports, except maybe baseball and lacrosse, are nowhere AAC quality.
If it was a football only move, Delaware would be stupid enough to make the jump. If the AAC forces them to move the entire department, there is no way Delaware makes the move. The other sports, except maybe baseball and lacrosse, are nowhere AAC quality.
Renegade
Charge on!
UMass doesn't leave the MAC until 2015, so they'd join a new conference for 2016. I think the AAC will exhaust all possibilities with BYU and Army before considering UMass. If neither of those come in, and the AAC still elects to take UMass, which I question given their stadium situation (even after the renovations, the on-campus stadium will only seat like 18k and still be ancient), I think Old Dominion would be hard to pass up. Works well geographically, provides ECU a natural rival, Norfolk/Virginia Beach is a major TV market, ODU has strong community support (every game has been a sellout and season tickets have a wait list), and the Tidewater has a ton of talent to recruit.
But I don't see the advantage for the AAC unless BYU is coming in. We'd split a meager TV deal and the playoff payout more ways and UMass has been just awful. This was what, like their second tourney appearance in 15 years? So they're not even adding much on the roundball side. Until/unless UMass is successful on the field and gets some attention in Boston, I really don't see why the AAC should bring them in unless another team leaves.
Realistically, I think UMass is off to the Sun Belt for FB-only, which will work just fine with the Belt and let UMass stay in the A-10. They'd be the 12th team, so the SBC would get a full share of the playoff money (confs with less than 12 get less, while confs with more than 12 don't get any more) and they could host a champ game, which would create revenue.
Sun Belt West: Idaho, New Mexico St., Texas State, Louisiana, Louisiana-Monroe, Arkansas State
Sun Belt East: South Alabama, Troy, Georgia St., Georgia Southern, Appalachian St., UMass
I actually don't think this means the MAC stays at 12 either. It now allows them to cleanly add two more teams to try to expand their TV footprint, because the MAC's problem is that they're like the old Southwest conference...pretty limited geographically and with few major TV markets in the conference. So they can go talk to Delaware, James Madison, whoever, and offer 2 all-sports memberships for those teams...presuming the TV deal would grow for any additions and not be outweighed by splitting the playoff money.
But I don't see the advantage for the AAC unless BYU is coming in. We'd split a meager TV deal and the playoff payout more ways and UMass has been just awful. This was what, like their second tourney appearance in 15 years? So they're not even adding much on the roundball side. Until/unless UMass is successful on the field and gets some attention in Boston, I really don't see why the AAC should bring them in unless another team leaves.
Realistically, I think UMass is off to the Sun Belt for FB-only, which will work just fine with the Belt and let UMass stay in the A-10. They'd be the 12th team, so the SBC would get a full share of the playoff money (confs with less than 12 get less, while confs with more than 12 don't get any more) and they could host a champ game, which would create revenue.
Sun Belt West: Idaho, New Mexico St., Texas State, Louisiana, Louisiana-Monroe, Arkansas State
Sun Belt East: South Alabama, Troy, Georgia St., Georgia Southern, Appalachian St., UMass
I actually don't think this means the MAC stays at 12 either. It now allows them to cleanly add two more teams to try to expand their TV footprint, because the MAC's problem is that they're like the old Southwest conference...pretty limited geographically and with few major TV markets in the conference. So they can go talk to Delaware, James Madison, whoever, and offer 2 all-sports memberships for those teams...presuming the TV deal would grow for any additions and not be outweighed by splitting the playoff money.
Renegade
Charge on!
I can't figure out either. Everyone acts like UMass basketball would be a big get, but like I said above, Marcus Camby ain't there no more. If they become a perennial tournament team again, then they've got some value, but right now? I don't see it beyond giving UConn a pal in the northeast.
Wooly
Well-Known Member
All I know is BYU used to have 1-2 PAC 10 teams on their schedule every year back in the 90s and 2000s, and the West is where BYU fans are.
Rutgers Mike
Dr. Sad
Isn't JMU going to CUSA?
Also, I don't even get the point of the MAC expanding their footprint. It's not going to help their TV contract, and is just gonna increase travel costs.
jamesnathan
Resident Mormon
I think they just want to move up. The MAC is also the more stable and better conference I think. At least more stable.
No idea why the MAC wants to expand either but that's what they're set on doing apparently.
Renegade
Charge on!
Old Dominion is off to CUSA. JMU is still in the Colonial at this point.
As to the MAC, I think they're trying to figure out what will help their TV deal. It's a bunch of schools in Ohio and Michigan with 3 outliers, and it's obviously not working on the money angle. So diversifying their viewing audience could be worthwhile.
Rutgers Mike
Dr. Sad
Oh, I always get those 2 confused.
And you know what would help their TV deal? Adding teams that can put more than 20K in their homefield. Same issue with the Sun Belt, CUSA, etc. At least CUSA has a couple teams that people will watch (Southern Miss, UTEP, thats all I got)
doh
THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
They have a big alumni base. Presence in Boston. Huge football budget. Evidently Robert Craft is a booster or into the program. Good at basketball (AAC is a joke of a basketball league especially with Louisville leaving… half the league was 140 RPI or lower). Doesn't make the AAC just C-USA 2.0.
I think it's smart to not join the MAC and basically sink your other sports if you're UMass. MAC is a bad football league and a bad basketball league. Might as well just be only in a bad football league.
I always thought the old Big East at least had a chance of appeasing the Catholic 7 by adding UMass as opposed to some of the other teams they did. Not that they really had a chance to "save" the league once WVU, Syracuse, Pitt all left.
Renegade
Charge on!
I can't tell that UMass gets any play in Boston, and if they have a big football budget, they need to spend it on their on-campus stadium. And Robert Kraft may be a supporter, but he's got them bent over with them required to play half their home games in Foxborough for like 4 more years. And UMass basketball has made one tourney in 15 years. It's not a basketball school...Cal and Camby are long gone.
UMass was smart to not join the MAC, that I agree with; but they'll be joining the Sun Belt for FB-only unless BYU or maybe Army decides to join the American.
Rutgers Mike
Dr. Sad
They don't get any play in Boston, but on the other side, if the AAC does eventually go to 14, besides BYU and Army as football only, they make the most sense as they do have a large enrollment and are a flagship state university as opposed to any of the other teams the AAC would consider adding.
Renegade
Charge on!
I'm not sure their value is higher than Old Dominion's given all the positives I listed about Old Dominion previously. New England just isn't a college football hotbed; even though UConn plays its home games in Hartford and has done really well since moving up to FBS, they don't have the type of attendance you'd expect for a flagship program in that situation. UMass playing a couple of hours from Boston in a college town in a much smaller and old stadium just doesn't do it for me. The name may be flagship, but there's no real state pride in UMass. I think they're near the top of the list, but I'd definitely put Old Dominion in front of them.
Rutgers Mike
Dr. Sad
AAC shouldn't even consider expanding anyway, unless someone bails on them. And you might be right about ODU. I see that they are building a new stadium so they have that going for them, and they are a decent fit geographically, bridging the gap from Navy to ECU. But there's no money, so it doesn't matter.
Rutgers Mike
Dr. Sad
I didn't realize the Sun Belt had 11. So if the Sun Belt went to 12, that would leave the Big 12, as the only conference without a championship game, right?
doh
THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
If I'm the Big XII I'd go Boise for sure. I think Boise brings a name brand above all else. I thought the committee had them ranked higher than they deserved to be most polls.
I'd probably go with UCF or BYU as the next team. If you go Boise/BYU you don't have to expand your other sports. They'd both be football only. You also get a major fan base. On the other hand, UCF has the newish stadium and Florida. They've become a solid program too.
I'd probably go with UCF or BYU as the next team. If you go Boise/BYU you don't have to expand your other sports. They'd both be football only. You also get a major fan base. On the other hand, UCF has the newish stadium and Florida. They've become a solid program too.
Renegade
Charge on!
Doubt the Big West is taking Boise's other sports this time. They only agreed to do that during the Boise to the Big East thing because they were getting San Diego St too. I think it's Cincy + UCF, but Memphis worries me a bit because Memphis fits easier and isn't as bold a move as UCF, so the reactionaries running the Big 12 may go for something that doesn't require them to risk much.
I really don't think Boise or BYU are candidates. BYU had their chance, and Boise just have the TVs. Their ratings on ESPN are good...people love the Smurf Turf on Thursday nights, but Boise is a huge gamble. If they quit being a 10-win team, you've got a real albatross not adding much to the conference. Basically Iowa State with fewer fans and eyes and without the decent roundball ISU typically puts on the court.
Memphis + Cincy is easy. You get some NCAA basketball credits and you add two football programs that can be decent but probably not great in the B12 structure. There's not too much danger of Memphis challenging Texas or OU like TCU is doing. Cincy might perform at a slightly higher level based on what they've done in the Big East, but the ceiling isn't as high as UCF. TCU is evidence of what a well coached team in a rich recruiting area can do if given the opportunity on the big stage, and I think UCF could easily become a top team in the B12, and I'm not sure UT/OU want that. They just need to bandaid the champ game issue and move on.
I really don't think Boise or BYU are candidates. BYU had their chance, and Boise just have the TVs. Their ratings on ESPN are good...people love the Smurf Turf on Thursday nights, but Boise is a huge gamble. If they quit being a 10-win team, you've got a real albatross not adding much to the conference. Basically Iowa State with fewer fans and eyes and without the decent roundball ISU typically puts on the court.
Memphis + Cincy is easy. You get some NCAA basketball credits and you add two football programs that can be decent but probably not great in the B12 structure. There's not too much danger of Memphis challenging Texas or OU like TCU is doing. Cincy might perform at a slightly higher level based on what they've done in the Big East, but the ceiling isn't as high as UCF. TCU is evidence of what a well coached team in a rich recruiting area can do if given the opportunity on the big stage, and I think UCF could easily become a top team in the B12, and I'm not sure UT/OU want that. They just need to bandaid the champ game issue and move on.
doh
THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
Well you could've written the same thing about TCU when they joined the Big XII. Yes, they're in Texas and Boise is in Idaho but there are enough teams in Texas that doesn't matter much. Boise is the only team out there that moves the needle in any way from a ratings and national respect level standpoint. The committee obviously respected them a lot with the rankings they gave them. I think they'd prefer the Big Sky to the Big West too.
BYU is probably re-evaluating what's going on since the SEC/ACC basically made it impossible on them to schedule since they aren't including them in the "other Power 5" non-conference game. They went from scheduling home and homes with UCLA, Texas, Nebraska, Virginia and other good teams to their last two I saw were home and homes with UMass and USF. They're getting some Pac-12 series but even that is limited because they only have 3 non-conference games. Maybe their chance passed with the Big XII but their situation is significantly different than it was when they were firs offered.
Cincy's won and they just redid their stadium which I think matters. I actually think opening up Ohio/PA area to recruiting via having WVU and Cincy is a little bit of a factor. Cincy is also a travel partner with WVU for non-revenue sports. Cincy has to be one of the top 10-15 programs in wins since 2006 and they've had a ridiculous run on HCs.
I do agree UCF is the bigger potential program. I do think part of their problem though might be not having a second FL school. You'll get into a situation if you go 12 teams with a 8 game conference schedule that teams not in their division will barely play them. But they have a bigger school, better area for recruiting and a warmer climate. I think they're a lot better option than USF for sure.
MtneerManiac
Burning Couches
Big XII shouldn't expand.
It's not worth each time losing out on $5 million per year just to add a program for the sake of adding one.
The playoff will expand in the future so I say ride it out.
Besides the biggest complain was the conference not naming a real champion. Institute a head to head clause and avoid that in the future. It's now hard, unless you're Bowlsby, I guess.
It's not worth each time losing out on $5 million per year just to add a program for the sake of adding one.
The playoff will expand in the future so I say ride it out.
Besides the biggest complain was the conference not naming a real champion. Institute a head to head clause and avoid that in the future. It's now hard, unless you're Bowlsby, I guess.
Wooly
Well-Known Member
BYU probably helps add revenue to a conference though. I don't know if any other non-power 5 team does that. All of the good situations were taken.
You also have to consider that you do get more money simply for playing more games. That is part of the negotiation in TV money. You not dividing the exact same money over more teams, but you probably do lose some value if they are not a valuable team.
You also have to consider that you do get more money simply for playing more games. That is part of the negotiation in TV money. You not dividing the exact same money over more teams, but you probably do lose some value if they are not a valuable team.
jamesnathan
Resident Mormon
I love all this "BYU had their chance" type of talk. Like BYU overplayed their hand or flat out told the Big XII no during the last round of expansion. BYU was never offered. From all the reports I saw, the conference wanted to keep the door open to possibly playing on Sundays if they wanted to. I know there are other stories out there, but not from anything credible that I ever found. I also know that there are stories out right now basically saying BYU had their chance. But again, nothing from any viable sources that I've been able to see.
Given that, BYU has an uphill climb. But I think they have things to offer and can keep other teams from losing the TV revenue which is really important to them. If they aren't talking to their friends in the conference right now, they are idiots.
Given that, BYU has an uphill climb. But I think they have things to offer and can keep other teams from losing the TV revenue which is really important to them. If they aren't talking to their friends in the conference right now, they are idiots.
Please Big12 take us....signed ever Cincy fan
Gatorfan4life
UCF Alumni
pretty please? doubt we will get any serious consideration. we dont really fit geographically. Orlando is a fairly large travel distance($$$$$$$) for most of the existing teams. especially when you bring into account the rest of the sports programs we would be bringing.
on the other hand we have a humungous student body that isnt getting any smaller, which can turn into a very large fanbase in the future(more $$$$$$). Our school has the stuff to co-exist in the big conferences. I hope we get our shot. the non power 5 schools are only nominally included in this playoff, and unless we get to a point where a group of 5 school has a guaranteed bid in an expanded playoff, the AAC is a dead end football conference.
silverwheels
PLAY LA BAMBA BABY
yeah, unless the tv revenue can be immediately renegotiated and raised upon expansion, there's no reason to do it, even if the committee is going to punish the conference for not having a CCG. of course i hope the Big 12 just dissolves as soon as the GOR is up in a decade, but who knows what will happen by then. maybe OU will have a corch that actually has some balls and will, at minimum, win the conference again, but prolly not. fuck baylor.
I can confirm CSU.
Is in Fort Collins
Is in Fort Collins
Renegade
Charge on!
Travel's an overstated concern. It's really overblown. There's definitely some opportunities to bus in the Big 12, but there's still plenty of flying going on. Unless they add Houston or Tulsa or SMU, they're going to be adding someone who is further out and will end up flying. Flying's no concern at all to FB and MBB who charter. So travel is really about the other sports, who end up flying commercial. Orlando's airport has a direct or 1-stop flight to every single B12 school's closest airport, something no other candidate can say. Tons of flights every day all throughout the country and generally at very good prices since Orlando is a tourist driven air market. Anyway, point being, while the distance is greater, the ease of traveling to Orlando is much easier than a closer school like Memphis, where someone like Iowa State is going to have 2 connections to get there.
DeadMan
aka spiker or DeadMong
It's not about flying, it's about the expense. It's expensive to have to fly a 20+ person team that makes no money around the country. Soccer, volleyball, etc. require a lot of seats. I'm guessing those sports would rack up at least half a million dollars just in travel, which would completely blow their budgets.
goblue96
Disney and Curling Expert
Volleyball requires fewer seats than a basketball team. Understand your point, doe.
goblue96
Disney and Curling Expert
And women's crew. You seen how many bodies there are on crew roster. It's gotta be close to 50.
jamesnathan
Resident Mormon
The biggest obstacle to expansion before was TV revenue. If BYU isn't saying "Don't pay us TV revenue. Just let us keep our deal with ESPN (with one game on BYUtv) for home games and we'll let you keep your money until we are part of the next TV negotiation deal." then they are idiots.