FM14 - Manchester City Time Travels (Inverting the Pyramid Dynasty)

[Travis7401]

I'm not abandoning my main dynasty, but I want to make a thread for this little side project. I'm reading (about 2/3rds finished) Inverting the Pyramid, and as each chapter goes by I keep dying to try the formations/tactics out in FM. I obviously don't want to dick around with random grab bag strategy on my main save, so I'm starting an "FM Classic" save featuring Manchester City. FM classic is just streamlined so I don't have to deal with much other than games/tacics and Manchester City because I'm now a super fan and they have a good roster featuring a variety of types of players and plenty of money to buy other specialists as well.

I'm not exactly sure how I'll go through all of this, or how long I'll spend trying to recreate each formation... but I plan on making it interactive for those who've read the book or understand the historic formations/tactics to add their input as well. I'll post my take on the formation style and you can tell me what you think or make suggestions.

Due to limitations creating a time with different offside rules, I think I considered starting with the first "modern" formation after the change of the offside rule in 1925, the W-M... But I'm interested to see the 2-3-5, so I'll start there even with the obvious offside disadvantages. I'll see if I can use an extremely high line to get it to work, even with the offside rule disadvantage that necessitated evolution of a 3rd back. If you are interested in seeing some even more archaic high line 1-2-7 formation, just let me know and I'll see if I can get it to work, but it might be too much.

 

[kella]

You're not a super fan until you never shut the fuck up about players who never see the field like Marcos Lopes and Jovetic

 

[Yankee151]

Nice, Inverting the pyramid is a cool book.

 

[GatorTD]

You're not a real superfan unless you try to recreate the original oil money city days by signing 9 strikers, lescott and shay given.

 

[Travis7401]

Here is my first crack at it:
2-3-5 aka Pyramid (1878-Late 1920s)

So the 2-3-5, if I recall correctly, had a couple of variations. The Scottish, relied on more of a short passing/possession type game. When the English teams then adopted it, they used the formation, but kept they're "style of play" (lots of dribbling, long passes). I suppose I'll start with the English variant where the "Center Half" (Javi Garcia in this case) would make long passes to distribute the ball to the wings and then they'd try to score a goal in 3 passes or less. I know the defense relied on man-marking, but I can't recall who was assigned to each attacking player when they played against another 2-3-5, and I might have to ask for input as I attempt to man mark against modern formations I come up against. The Center Forward is the big BTT and the Inside Forwards are also used as goal scoring threats (Shadow Striker Designation because I wasn't sure I could get 5 across the front with the right designations). I set the wingers as "Defensive winger" for now, but I'm not sure I'll stick with that. I set the "Fullbacks" (Lescott and Company) as Central Defenders with "Cover" specialties.

For team instructions I'm using the following
Push much higher (they played very high lines due to offside rules at the time.)
Direct passing (English long passing)
Run at defense (Dribbling was dominant in the English game at the time)
Clear Ball to flanks. (This is where most of the attacks started after the Center-Half distributed the ball to one flank or the other).

 

[Travis7401]

I played one friendly game with it and I think I'll move the wingers forward and remove the defensive winger designation. The Much higher defensive line was key, and I also turned Hart to a sweeper keeper to cover behind that, lol. This is going to be a mess against good teams Still it was cool to see when one of the goals started with Javi Garcia, who cleared the ball out to Jesus Navas, who dribbled a few times before centering to Nasri who scored. Goal in 3 passes just like they drew it up. (The other goals didn't come this way, hell 2 of them came when Lescott BTT'd corners)

Fun game, I didn't do any man marking assignments, which I absolutely need to do in order to make sure the offensive players are accounted for. That will be done in the next game, and might require me moving the Left and Right "Halfback" one slot further out. Krasnodar took the lead early, and Man City kind of sucked as they probably had a huge learning curve with this mong formation, but they put it together in the end and still pulled off a 4-1 win.

(Screenshots will be different because FM Classic has a different Default Skin)

I think I'll just make videos going forward, as it would probably be more fun to watch the action? Any thoughts on this?

 

[kella]

Regular fm has that skin too and true bosses use it

 

[Travis7401]

I forgot I added "stand off opponents" in game, because there was no pressing back then, as it was considered uncouth.

 

[Orangebird]

Yankee will tell you it should be Jovetic over Nasri as the inside forward.

 

[Yankee151]

Not in the formation, he'd be too clogged. I'd want him leading the line

 

[Travis7401]

Jovetic will be the Center Forward next game. (Psych, he's injured)

 

[Travis7401]

Alright, Ima do a full game video of the next one so you can see the amazing flow of the game in the 2-3-5 formation. Only limited sideline adjustments allowed.

 

[goblue96]

Do you sub players during the game? I don't think that was allowed either back in that era.

 

[Travis7401]

I won't sub.

 

[goblue96]

Can't wait to see match reports when you finish with 8 players due to injury.

 

[Travis7401]

Well I think I'll only play a few games with the 2-3-5 formation, as I think I'd get hammered in competitive matches. Then I'll move on to the W-M formation for a bit when the season actually starts. I'll probably keep a similar no subs rule until I introduce the 4-2-4, at which point I'll get 1 sub.

 

[Travis7401]

2-3-5 Pyramid Formation Full Game

Manchester City dominated lesser competition again, but the scoreline was far more lopsided than the actual game. Pachuca actually had the same number of shots and more "clear cut chances" than Manchester City did, but the combination of Joe Hart being impenitrable and Pachuca just kind of sucking meant they weren't able to take advantage of the defensive frailties of this formation. I forgot to take a screenshot of the formations both teams used, but you should be able to see it in the first video where I show my formation and the adjustments. I went ahead and assigned man marking responsibilities to all 5 of my defenders/midfielders, but I'm not sure it really helped. Pachuca played a 5-3-2 formation and the unmarked wingbacks caused all sorts of problems because there was no one assigned to them and my wingers didn't even think of tracking back. That's fine, because this formation isn't really supposed to "work" with modern offsides rules.

Pachuca actually scored the very first goal of the game when it looked like my defense attempted (and failed at) an offsideds trap when their player had already dribbled past. It weird, but pretty typical for the defensive breakdowns I've seen with this formation. Man City scored one goal from a corner, otherwise the other 5 came in open play. Fernandinho scored one of the more impressive long shot goals I've seen yet in FM. It was kind of fun to watch the game while restricting the input I had as a manager. Several of my players became injured at various points and I was fortunate that none of them had to be taken off.

Full Game (3 parts) (fwiw I don't think much happens in 2nd vid)




Goals Only

 

[Travis7401]

Mystique of the 2-3-5 Pyramid Formation:

From CJones:

2–3–5 (Pyramid) [edit]

The first long-term successful formation was first recorded in 1880.[sup][1][/sup] However, in "Association Football" published by Caxton in 1960, the following appears in Vol II, page 432: "Wrexham ... the first winner of the Welsh Cup in 1877 ... for the first time certainly in Wales and probably in Britain, a team played three half backs and five forwards ..."

The 2–3–5 was originally known as the "Pyramid", with the numerical formation being referenced retrospectively. By the 1890s, it was the standard formation in England and had spread all over the world. With some variations, it was used by most top level teams up to the 1930s.

For the first time, a balance between attacking and defending was reached. When defending, the two defenders (fullbacks), would watch out for the opponent's wingers (the outside players in the attacking line), while the midfielders (halfbacks) would watch for the other three forwards.

The centre halfback had a key role in both helping to organise the team's attack and marking the opponent's centre forward, supposedly one of their most dangerous players.
It was this formation which gave rise to the convention of shirt numbers.[sup][2][/sup]

[sup]

[/sup]