JSU Zack
How do I IT?
I stopped reading here. Prepare for cheese.
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NCAA Defensive Discussion
- Thread starter bruin228
- Start date
I stopped reading here. Prepare for cheese.
LEGEND
Well-Known Member
Been trying to lab since Friday!
LoLI get off 2pm est... You around at that time?
Yea, I expect a whole lot of cheese.. The commissioner says otherwise though.
We'll see!
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LEGEND
Well-Known Member
Oh well... It went better than expected. He was as expected... but my defense let me down! He kept running this 5 wide play I'd never seen. My deep safety in cover 3 kept switching to man for some reason. I stuck with it a bit too long I guess... He kicked a field goal with 2 seconds for the win.
Final score 45-42
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JSU Zack
How do I IT?
Been trying to lab since Friday!LoL
I get off 2pm est... You around at that time?
Yea, I expect a whole lot of cheese.. The commissioner says otherwise though.
We'll see!
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I can play around 8 PM EST.
fanoftgame
Active Member
Obviously quarters doesmt work like it should irl. However online where I play moat of my games I'd say its my base. You can get hurt by it by the quick game tbh its not that big a deal. I want to force my opponent to be patient enough to consistently hit the quick game stuff all the way down the field. Also the easiest quick game throw in this game imo is the curl route. Which is in theory taken away by covwr c/f defender.
I user a safety and user robber rules to get involved in run game or quick paass game. If they are really hurting you get in 3 man front cover 4 and you will have an extra zone defender.
JSU Zack
How do I IT?
I run Cover 4 pretty often on 3rd down, but I have my DB's play press coverage with aggressive zones. What you could do is drop back a DT to assist over the middle.
The problem with Cover 4 in this game is it's not programmed the way Pat Narduzzi runs it. Narduzzi's runs Cover 4 out of a 1-high look with everyone playing man-to-man if the receiver they're lined up against stays in their quarter of the field. The game just has the defender run to the bubble and sit there. I've actually seen Cover 4 get beat over the top more than a few times. For example, Cover 4 should handle the Dagger concept pretty well, but both of the playside quarters defenders usually bit on the dig.
JSU Zack
How do I IT?
A good scheme I've found to stop the pass happy offenses is to rotate between Cover 1 Robber, Cover 3, & Cover 4 out of 1-high. I made this change against @bruin228 the last time we played, and it threw him for a curveball for a few drives. The Robber call is the killshot that should get you picks.
fanoftgame
Active Member
What did you do to keep the look consistant, show blitz every play?
fanoftgame
Active Member
I dont mess with coverage sittings until I get to redzone. However I move my safeties to a depth parales to the corners and coverage shade toward the middle. This stops the seam verts and if the awarness of safeties are good can handle some deep ins by #2.
For whatever reason on 1/4 zones dont work unless they are played at a closer depth. There is too much space. Look at the depth cb's play at and how much better they defend verts and other routes. Safeties have to be at hat same depth pre play the way ea has it programed
JSU Zack
How do I IT?
Yes, make the audible immediately after you come out of the huddle to mostly hide it from your opponent.
LEGEND
Well-Known Member
I think it was NCAA 12? That was the last yr before they removed cover 4 from the 4-4 defense on the game. I ran strictly cover 4 and shifted to or from strength of the formation. That defense was incredible!
It was great against the run and disastrous to a quick passing game! I got so many picks with that defense... Didn't matter what formation someone came out in.
They saw 4-4 and thought they could make certain plays... Nope!
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It was great against the run and disastrous to a quick passing game! I got so many picks with that defense... Didn't matter what formation someone came out in.
They saw 4-4 and thought they could make certain plays... Nope!
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JSU Zack
How do I IT?
I think it was NCAA 12? That was the last yr before they removed cover 4 from the 4-4 defense on the game. I ran strictly cover 4 and shifted to or from strength of the formation. That defense was incredible!
It was great against the run and disastrous to a quick passing game! I got so many picks with that defense... Didn't matter what formation someone came out in.
They saw 4-4 and thought they could make certain plays... Nope!
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You could probably still do this with the 4-2-5 like @TxHusker with a 4-4 audible for Cover 1/Unbalanced Sets
LEGEND
Well-Known Member
I tried... Even audible to it from 4-2-5 with 4-4 personnel. It doesn't play the same. May try it again.... Might take some more tweaking to make work?
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JSU Zack
How do I IT?
Paging @TXHusker05 see above. ^^^
I tried... Even audible to it from 4-2-5 with 4-4 personnel. It doesn't play the same. May try it again.... Might take some more tweaking to make work?
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What are you trying to do? It it is run Cover 4, I wouldn't bother. I go from 4-2-5 to 4-4 any time my opponent comes out in an unbalanced alignment. The audible is seamless personnel wise, the SS just transition right to OLB spots and if it is unbalanced, the corner will flip sides as he should. The result basically becomes a 4-2-5 CB Over alignment.
I only run two coverages out of that though, inverted Cover 2 and Cover 1. Nothing else really works.
fanoftgame
Active Member
fanoftgame
Active Member
My general philosophy is be plus one in the run game and force them slowly move the ball up the field. What are they doing to you. Is it just slants?
fanoftgame
Active Member
fanoftgame
Active Member
cover 2 gives man advantage to both sides in passing game and 5 defenders(if you user mlb) vs 4 recievers on slant plays.
I have a TON of success running Cover 6 in this game. I can't use it as a base defense (my base is Cover 3 or Inverted Cover 2) but in most & Long situations I default to Cover 6. But it takes a few tweaks.
First, don't run it if the ball is in the middle of the field. If the ball is in the middle of the field, I'll typically just stick in one of my base calls. If the ball is on or near the hash, I will run Cover 6 with the two quarters coverages to the field.
Second, adjust the coverage setting to conservative. Assuming you're only calling this on & Long situations, you want to be in Conservative zones.
Third, you have to do something about the boundary corner. Letting him stay as a flat defender is the reason why Cover 6 usually sucks. It's easy to pick on him. You can do one of three things. 1) Hot route him to man coverage on the outer most player, 2) Hot route him to a buzz (purple) zone, 3) Manually control him.
I do #3 99% of the time. I feel like it gives me an advantage. I'll align 8-10 yards off the outer most receiver and read the play just like a CB would in Cover 4. If the #1 (outside) WR goes vertical, I just stalk him up the field and treat it like man. If the #1 WR goes inside, I let him go, focus on #2 who typically will run some sort of outside route. If both WR break inside, I'll treat it like man and track the #1 WR just like man.
It takes a lot of confidence in your stick skills and awareness to do that because good users can and will attack your manual CB. Hot routing him to a buzz route will usually get a similar result, but can leave you susceptible to curls. I love Cover 6 as an & Long defense and actually got 3 INT (of 7 total) with it tonight vs Sands in Powerhouse.
First, don't run it if the ball is in the middle of the field. If the ball is in the middle of the field, I'll typically just stick in one of my base calls. If the ball is on or near the hash, I will run Cover 6 with the two quarters coverages to the field.
Second, adjust the coverage setting to conservative. Assuming you're only calling this on & Long situations, you want to be in Conservative zones.
Third, you have to do something about the boundary corner. Letting him stay as a flat defender is the reason why Cover 6 usually sucks. It's easy to pick on him. You can do one of three things. 1) Hot route him to man coverage on the outer most player, 2) Hot route him to a buzz (purple) zone, 3) Manually control him.
I do #3 99% of the time. I feel like it gives me an advantage. I'll align 8-10 yards off the outer most receiver and read the play just like a CB would in Cover 4. If the #1 (outside) WR goes vertical, I just stalk him up the field and treat it like man. If the #1 WR goes inside, I let him go, focus on #2 who typically will run some sort of outside route. If both WR break inside, I'll treat it like man and track the #1 WR just like man.
It takes a lot of confidence in your stick skills and awareness to do that because good users can and will attack your manual CB. Hot routing him to a buzz route will usually get a similar result, but can leave you susceptible to curls. I love Cover 6 as an & Long defense and actually got 3 INT (of 7 total) with it tonight vs Sands in Powerhouse.
LEGEND
Well-Known Member
Pretty much same thing you're doing! Wanted to give different looks. I was able to get picks because of the unexpected drop depths of the LB's with 4-4 cover 4. They don't drop the same as before.... when you call 4-4 and audible to 4-2-5 cover 4.
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Pretty much same thing you're doing! Wanted to give different looks. I was able to get picks because of the unexpected drop depths of the LB's with 4-4 cover 4. They don't drop the same as before.... when you call 4-4 and audible to 4-2-5 cover 4.
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Yeah going 4-4 to 4-2-5 doesn't work the same as 4-2-5 to 4-4. You get alignment issues and I think the Cover 2 and Cover 4 zones in 4-2-5 are a little different than others. I prefer Cover 6 in Nickel, Cover 2 in Nickel or 4-4 and Cover 3 in 4-2-5.
I do use safety adjustments to "create" an inverted Cover 2 in 4-2-5 from time to time. Pinch the safeties and manually control the middle third player as sort of a robber (which I tend to do always).
PaHsFootballRules
Member
Is it possible to run a 4-3 Under Cover 3 defense as base and have similar success to standard 4-3 Cover 3? I normally only play as an OC but looking at HC positions in my dynasty and want to figure out my D before I do.
JSU Zack
How do I IT?
The overall makeup of any coverage is relatively the same when comparing variants defensive formations. The only difference between an under and over formation is the front.
See here: http://gbmwolverine.com/2014/02/26/michigan-football-different-defense-4-3-over-vs-4-3-under/
PaHsFootballRules
Member
fanoftgame
Active Member
I dont think the alignment issues this game has effects you as much vs cpu.
LEGEND
Well-Known Member
Got a question for the defensive gurus here. How do you play someone that runs hurry up no huddle... And audibles multiple times at the LOS?
I played a guy in this OD the other night... Who's in the top 50 on the leaderboard. I expected cheese and eventually got Velveeta!
After picking him off a couple times... He went hurry up no huddle. I dropped another pic and he went multiple audibles at the line. It was frustrating.... the game doesn't allow you to audible on defense like that. He would call three audibles at the line of scrimmage.
You could see my defenders running around in circles do to the audibles causing alignment issues. He'd then quick snap while they were adjusting.
Even with all that... We were tied at 14-14... He scored right before half to make it 21-14 and we lost connection. I put myself on auto because I had to plan Flanntastic in the powerhouse dyn.
Any suggestions?
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I played a guy in this OD the other night... Who's in the top 50 on the leaderboard. I expected cheese and eventually got Velveeta!
After picking him off a couple times... He went hurry up no huddle. I dropped another pic and he went multiple audibles at the line. It was frustrating.... the game doesn't allow you to audible on defense like that. He would call three audibles at the line of scrimmage.
You could see my defenders running around in circles do to the audibles causing alignment issues. He'd then quick snap while they were adjusting.
Even with all that... We were tied at 14-14... He scored right before half to make it 21-14 and we lost connection. I put myself on auto because I had to plan Flanntastic in the powerhouse dyn.
Any suggestions?
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Far from a defensive guru. I have 5 quick defensive audibles in my tool kit
Y - 2-3-6 Dime Man (w/2 deep safeties in Zone0
A- 3-3-5 Split Cover 2 Zone (puts 8 guys around the LOS, but is good change of pace for pass coverage)
X - 3-3-5 Nickel Cover 4
For LB and RB I have run blitzes. One is a 4-6 Bear Blitz and the other is a 5-2 Cover 2.
You need something to deal with any situation from someone looking to throw to someone hurrying up the run the ball on 3rd and short. I say all this and still give up 30 points a game to users so take it with a grain of salt. At least I make them "work for it"
Y - 2-3-6 Dime Man (w/2 deep safeties in Zone0
A- 3-3-5 Split Cover 2 Zone (puts 8 guys around the LOS, but is good change of pace for pass coverage)
X - 3-3-5 Nickel Cover 4
For LB and RB I have run blitzes. One is a 4-6 Bear Blitz and the other is a 5-2 Cover 2.
You need something to deal with any situation from someone looking to throw to someone hurrying up the run the ball on 3rd and short. I say all this and still give up 30 points a game to users so take it with a grain of salt. At least I make them "work for it"
I never set audibles... I really need to! I never know what I want as my audibles... That's the problem.
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What makes sense to me is Y, A and X being some sort of quick pass coverages.
RB and LB (I think of them as Run Blitz Right and Run Blitz left) being my heavy packages.
fanoftgame
Active Member
First off its cheese.
Secound it depends on what he is audibling to. But in general if he is going from compressed to spread sets its going to be a long night.
My audbiles are cover2 man, cover 2 zone, Cover 3, cover 4, and maybe a blitz.
I base them all out the the same formation so there isnt much give away, Usually from 4-3 normal.
Anyway your going to have to be quick and manually move defenders. If your OD doesn't allow that you need to talk to the commish about all these audible because like you said the defense runs out of chances to audible.
What I do in general versus cheese and people who run a high powered offense I have problems stopping is basically play bend but don't break and try stop them in the redzone.
Another thing is as far as passing game goes. Play cover 4 and cover 3 and force them to throw underneath to get yardage. If they are good they will get 5-6 but what you want to is make them be patient.
1. Guys like that want to score at 100mph. Make them be patient and frustrate them.
2. By making them run as many plays as possible you can pick up on patterns that may serve later in the game or in key situations.
Lastly, Man defense. I don't like to run man alot but if you can match up or win at a couple spots all that motion can have a limited affect.
Again its hard giving advice without seeing what formations and plays he is running but this general advice.
Also, I dont think there is such a thing as a defensive guru in ncaa 14
LEGEND
Well-Known Member
With the exception being that final drive before half... He had to grind for his scores! He thought he was going to just fly up and down the field. I picked him on trying to score on 1-2 plays.
He settled down after that. But on the final drive he was going from compressed to spread like you stated. I really had no answer for that. He still had to work but I couldn't stop it.. I just prolonged the score.
What made it more difficult is... this dynasty has no rule for hurry up. So he'd hurry up after sacks, in completions etc..
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He settled down after that. But on the final drive he was going from compressed to spread like you stated. I really had no answer for that. He still had to work but I couldn't stop it.. I just prolonged the score.
What made it more difficult is... this dynasty has no rule for hurry up. So he'd hurry up after sacks, in completions etc..
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That's what I do as well, my LB and RB are my 4-4 formations (one coverage, one blitz) and my Y/A/X are my 4-2-5 or Nickel base pass coverages (two zone, one man free).
My Nickel Normal Cover 1/Man Free audible is my break in case of emergency audible when I get taken by surprise by a formation and just need a safe base coverage. For example, if someone uses Empty Spread which shows as 11 personnel on the play call screen, I'll usually call my base defense but when they get to the line and it is an Empty I have to get out of my base.
I bet I run one of my two custom versions 425 Normal Cover 3 80% of my defensive snaps in any given game, alternating between aggressive (my normal base zone setting) and conservative zone defense depending on Down & Distance.
The only two situations that really compel me to get out of 425N Cover 3 and into something else is 3rd & Extra Long (12+) and vs unbalanced formations (3x1, Twin TE, etc). On 3rd & Extra Long, I'll typically end up in a custom Cover 6. Vs Unbalanced, I'll typically audible to my 4-4 sets. 4-4 gives you the same base 4-2-5 look with personnel, but now your CB moves over to the trips/twins side.
I suppose there is a third reason to get me out of 425N, which would be Empty sets. If my opponent goes Empty, I will typically try to ride out 425N as much as possible but if they start throwing bubble and quick stuff to the inside slots I will go to one of my 44 or Nickel Normal checks.
Pretty much what CoachTuck said, everyone is so used to throwing in the middle of the field that a Cover 3 with a really good user controlled FS can take away the primary passing game. That pretty much leaves people to trying to throw quick curls/outs on the perimeter, which is still tough to defend, but a lower percentage throw than letting people shallow cross or post you to death.
I think the other issue with Cover 3 in game is that the typical real life ways to attack it don't work. Typically you're going to attack Cover 3 with Four Verts or Smash or some sort of Skinny Post concept. In game, there isn't enough field spacing (field is too narrow) to attack Cover 3 with Four Verts. The FS can usually cover both inside vertical routes unless you just rifle the pass, in which case the LB has a chance to snag it.
With Smash, the default Smash route has terrible spacing between the corner and the quick hitch and the hook/flat defender can usually cover both. I personally get around that by hot routing the hitch to just a now route where he just stops and turns at the LOS. That helps get the spacing you need between the hook/flat zone and the deep third.
And unfortunately, there really aren't any competent skinny post plays in the game. There are a few that aren't bad, but nothing you'd really want to hang your hat on. I'd give anything for a really nicely designed NCAA concept where you have a skinny post above a dig to put that FS in a bind. There is an NCAA concept in one of the Normal Wing Offset formations but it is hit or miss.
That all means you have to resort to unnatural concepts to attack Cover 3 in the game. That isn't to say it isn't doable, I personally like facing Cover 3 because it plays right into my strengths but for other people, it forces them out of their comfort zone and that leads to mistakes.
Usually if his first read is a throw inside the hashes and he stares it down by the time he comes off of it the corners will be in a good place to play the curls but @TXHusker are you robbing the field in 2x2 or just sticking with what side the defensive formation aligns you to ?
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