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NCAA Defensive Discussion

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
Go on I hate it but run commit is the only thing I can find to counter act the aggressive blocking setting
Most of the dynasties with members from here... don't allow run commit. I've never been one to run commit anyway. There was a guy in one of my other dynasties that run committed "EVERY" play!

He had it down to a science... It was so frustrating! He completely shut your run game down... Most of passing game too! He caused many a players to quit the dynasty. He never bothered me though... I was undefeated against him.

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JAR201166

Well-Known Member
Most of the dynasties with members from here... don't allow run commit. I've never been one to run commit anyway. There was a guy in one of my other dynasties that run committed "EVERY" play!

He had it down to a science... It was so frustrating! He completely shut your run game down... Most of passing game too! He caused many a players to quit the dynasty. He never bothered me though... I was undefeated against him.

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Honestly if you can't hit a deep ball its gonna get you but it wrecks the short passing an run game makes up for the stupid zone coverage issues by other players you're not using
 

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
The blitzes I'm talking about... send 7 guys! If it's anything over 5yds... It's getting to you! Because of the show blitz.. it's hard to know where the overload is coming from. I can leave a guy uncovered in 5 wide and get the sack b4 the QB has a chance to make the throw.

That's with the user knowing who's uncovered too! With elite talent it's almost impossible to beat. I have TX St In a dynasty with no defensive players above 75 Ovr... In fact... My DE's are both 72 Ovr my MLB is 75 and my OLB's are 70 and 72. In consecutive wk's I just beat FSU & Miami with 10+ sacks in each and multiple pick sixes!

It's just one adjustment needed to defend any group of receivers. The angles of the blitz... destroy the run in the process! My pick sixes are a result of people trying to throw screens against the look!



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JAR201166

Well-Known Member
The blitzes I'm talking about... send 7 guys! If it's anything over 5yds... It's getting to you! Because of the show blitz.. it's hard to know where the overload is coming from. I can leave a guy uncovered in 5 wide and get the sack b4 the QB has a chance to make the throw.

That's with the user knowing who's uncovered too! With elite talent it's almost impossible to beat. I have TX St In a dynasty with no defensive players above 75 Ovr... In fact... My DE's are both 72 Ovr my MLB is 75 and my OLB's are 70 and 72. In consecutive wk's I just beat FSU & Miami with 10+ sacks in each and multiple pick sixes!

It's just one adjustment needed to defend any group of receivers. The angles of the blitz... destroy the run in the process! My pick sixes are a result of people trying to throw screens against the look!



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The qb spy one fucks with the offensive line logic it's considered a nano
 

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
The qb spy one fucks with the offensive line logic it's considered a nano
Yeah I don't use that one... Actually it's the AI logic that's screwed up! Prior yrs if no one was over the Center it caused issues... This game if you move guys from over guards it causes problems.

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Go on I hate it but run commit is the only thing I can find to counter act the aggressive blocking setting
To me run commit is arcadish and pure cheese. It disrepects ratings, leverage, physics, and human anatomy(cb's run commit inside to run then magically find their reciever behind him and mirror the route).

Run commit and pass commit( while far more realistic) are some of the worst gimmicks ever added to the madden and ncaa series since ps2 days.

/rant
 

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
To me run commit is arcadish and pure cheese. It disrepects ratings, leverage, physics, and human anatomy(cb's run commit inside to run then magically find their reciever behind him and mirror the route).

Run commit and pass commit( while far more realistic) are some of the worst gimmicks ever added to the madden and ncaa series since ps2 days.

/rant
I totally agree on run commit... It's the reason I don't use it! Everyone on defense charges hard inside and can still drop into a perfect trail position?

GTFOH!!!



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Atmore

Active Member
Is it just me or is 425 over and under the same just flipped? I thought under and over fronts have different alignments

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I totally agree on run commit... It's the reason I don't use it! Everyone on defense charges hard inside and can still drop into a perfect trail position?

GTFOH!!!



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This the reason I have moved almost exclusively to Air Raid or Run-N-Shoot when I play NCAA. It's not worth the headache to have a thought our run game planned only for it to be made useless by someone using run commit with a little unpredictability.
 

JAR201166

Well-Known Member
Like I watched some saban stuff he was saying you know on this down we're thinking run due to watching film an what not I think run commit helps with people that don't like to user a safety you get toasted if your wrong just like in real life
 
Like I watched some saban stuff he was saying you know on this down we're thinking run due to watching film an what not I think run commit helps with people that don't like to user a safety you get toasted if your wrong just like in real life
The problem with run commit like others have said it not executed realistically in the game. It destroys the offensive line blocking Ai, disregards ratings, and too many secondary defenders are still in good position to defend the pass. As someone said before at times it puts defenders in better position to defend the pass because they gain inside leverage and start to mirror the defender.

But the main thing is the disregard for ratings, and messing with blocking AI.

An example of what I was talking about before was me working on a two tightend power running scheme. Its not designed to trick you its smash mouth 3yrds and a cloud of dust football. Well with run commit you can put a 3-2 dime defense on the field with your cb matching on my te's and run commit middle and totally negate my Te's strength and blocking mismatch. My oline gets beat regardless of their rating.

I remember watching a game a couple years ago where Stanford literally ran it down Oregon's throat. They basically were running power over and over to clinch the game and Oregon couldn't do anything about it because they were outmatched up front.

I remember watching it thinking of ncaa like " why doesn't Oregon get in quarters and run commit" lmao.

In Ncaa that strategy actually works.
 
It's either run commit or blitz everyone for me
Yea I think if you really want a run commit effect that is more realistic it would some type of engage 8 or cover 0 blitz. To me that gives a better risk reward for the defense while not negating ratings.

But like I said, that's why I'd run more Air Raid if I played ncaa. Of the few who still play the game you never know when your going to play a "run committer" so instead of it frustrating me I just eliminate the problem and pass almost every play lol. It also helps me develop that aspect of my game.
 

JAR201166

Well-Known Member
Yea I think if you really want a run commit effect that is more realistic it would some type of engage 8 or cover 0 blitz. To me that gives a better risk reward for the defense while not negating ratings.

But like I said, that's why I'd run more Air Raid if I played ncaa. Of the few who still play the game you never know when your going to play a "run committer" so instead of it frustrating me I just eliminate the problem and pass almost every play lol. It also helps me develop that aspect of my game.
Well I would pass commit then lol
 
Well I would pass commit then lol
Well im sure your would lol. However, I dont mind pass commit as much. While it disrespects ratings as well it doesnt have that defensive warping effect, and doesnt break cpu ai like run commit. There is less "have your cake and eat it too" with pass commit imo.

Ea should have never implemented either tho. But to their credit in Madden its way less arcardish.
 
Does someone want to teach me defense?

Basics to complex, etc.

I'm pretty fucking horrible, I run a Nykia inspired bend-but-break 3-3-5 stack.

Thinking of trying out something different with a 4-2-5.

Any tips, strategy, etc

Like, atm I don't user anyone on defense, I know that needs to change, anyone have tips on how to user pick (timing, etc?)
 

bruin228

Madden Mobile Addict
NCAA Moderator
Not sure, willing to build it up from basics. I've been a fire-zone guy for a long time.
Find which zone/look you want to base out of. @bluejay13 uses a lot of 2 high stuff, I use a lot of 1 high, etc. If you're going to run something other than a 3-3-5, your front should correspond with your zone call. So if you're going to base out of Cover 2, you want to base out of 4-3 Stack, 4-2-5 Over, or 3-4 Over (or Odd). Cover 3, 4-3 Under, 4-2-5 Under, 3-4 Under (or Odd). If you're gonna run the 3-3-5, they're all odd fronts with the exception of 3-3-5 Bear and you can run virtually anything with an Odd front. Next, understand where the weak spots in those zones and where the "bubble" in the front is as well as gap responsibilities.



If you get this look, where is the best place to run the ball? In between the LT and LG, that's the "bubble." The weaknesses in zone you should know already because you're a good passer. Also think about the coverages when the defenders are off and when they're pressed. Cover 3 press, people are going to try to go over the top, so you need to have good DBs and carry the inside verticals with a LB or SS if they throw four verts at you. Off Cover 3, the first place people are going to attack is the outside with curls and deep outs, so you need to take those away, either manually or hot routing your flats to buzzes. Regardless, what Kirk says ad nauseum in the game is true. There are always going to be places to exploit, you just have to be aware of those areas and do your best to minimize them. Oh, and above all, you need talent, especially up front. The worst secondary in the world can still confuse people every once in a while if they're expecting Cover 3 and get 2 Man Under or something, but the worst defensive line in the world is asking to get run on 40-50 times a game in a game where the run is overpowered, which means you are probably going to lose.

You can user whoever, but most people prefer taking an LB or safety because you can user cover and try to cover up the holes in your zones. You can still user a lineman, though; bluejay did it/does it and gets good pressure. Or you can shift according to situation, like playing with an LB normally but shifting to a DE on 3rd and long to get a better pass and force a quicker throw or come up with a sack.
 
Find which zone/look you want to base out of. @bluejay13 uses a lot of 2 high stuff, I use a lot of 1 high, etc. If you're going to run something other than a 3-3-5, your front should correspond with your zone call. So if you're going to base out of Cover 2, you want to base out of 4-3 Stack, 4-2-5 Over, or 3-4 Over (or Odd). Cover 3, 4-3 Under, 4-2-5 Under, 3-4 Under (or Odd). If you're gonna run the 3-3-5, they're all odd fronts with the exception of 3-3-5 Bear and you can run virtually anything with an Odd front. Next, understand where the weak spots in those zones and where the "bubble" in the front is as well as gap responsibilities.



If you get this look, where is the best place to run the ball? In between the LT and LG, that's the "bubble." The weaknesses in zone you should know already because you're a good passer. Also think about the coverages when the defenders are off and when they're pressed. Cover 3 press, people are going to try to go over the top, so you need to have good DBs and carry the inside verticals with a LB or SS if they throw four verts at you. Off Cover 3, the first place people are going to attack is the outside with curls and deep outs, so you need to take those away, either manually or hot routing your flats to buzzes. Regardless, what Kirk says ad nauseum in the game is true. There are always going to be places to exploit, you just have to be aware of those areas and do your best to minimize them. Oh, and above all, you need talent, especially up front. The worst secondary in the world can still confuse people every once in a while if they're expecting Cover 3 and get 2 Man Under or something, but the worst defensive line in the world is asking to get run on 40-50 times a game in a game where the run is overpowered, which means you are probably going to lose.

You can user whoever, but most people prefer taking an LB or safety because you can user cover and try to cover up the holes in your zones. You can still user a lineman, though; bluejay did it/does it and gets good pressure. Or you can shift according to situation, like playing with an LB normally but shifting to a DE on 3rd and long to get a better pass and force a quicker throw or come up with a sack.
So lets talk standard down run defense, my theory is that basically to stop outside runs you just want a cloud/buzz/sky in force? Probably cloud is "Strongest" force I'd imagine? what in this video game somewhat stops in side runs?

Can you explain why the fronts you mentioned matched with Cover 2, but anything matches with odd fronts?
 
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bruin228

Madden Mobile Addict
NCAA Moderator
Force players are the guys that are tasked with turning the ball back inside, so they're not really going to help out with inside runs. Mostly user play and front seven talent, but pinching or slanting your line or bringing a safety into the box helps.
 

JAR201166

Well-Known Member
So lets talk standard down run defense, my theory is that basically to stop outside runs you just want a cloud/buzz/sky in force? Probably cloud is "Strongest" force I'd imagine? what in this video game somewhat stops in side runs?

Can you explain why the fronts you mentioned matched with Cover 2, but anything matches with odd fronts?
Run commit
 
So lets talk standard down run defense, my theory is that basically to stop outside runs you just want a cloud/buzz/sky in force? Probably cloud is "Strongest" force I'd imagine? what in this video game somewhat stops in side runs?

Can you explain why the fronts you mentioned matched with Cover 2, but anything matches with odd fronts?
You always want a force player no matter what defense you play. Who the force player is, is dictated by the secondary coverage you choose. Ex: Cover 2 will have cloud (corner) force. Cover 3 will have either buzz(backer) force, or sky(safety force).

Choose the coverage first. Pick the one that you feel solves the most problems for you. To me it cover 3. You have a plus 1 advantage in the box unless the qb is a run threat, and its basically the same as cover 2(Tampa 2) in the game as far as zones it defends. The only difference is the who defends those zones and having the extra defender in the box.

You stop run in general by
1) having more in the box then the offense can block
2) Defending the gaps where they want to run



For example

This play is attacking the C gap. (Tip: don't go by what it say on playcall screen go by what it says on play art on the field)

(I just quickly google some images I don't own these)


So to defend this play generally you want someone in the c gap. What this will do is give the defender leverage to where the offense is attacking. What should happen is it will force the defender to bounce, which allows time for pursuit from you box players where you hopefully have a man free because you have more defenders in the box then they can block.
 
You always want a force player no matter what defense you play. Who the force player is, is dictated by the secondary coverage you choose. Ex: Cover 2 will have cloud (corner) force. Cover 3 will have either buzz(backer) force, or sky(safety force).

Choose the coverage first. Pick the one that you feel solves the most problems for you. To me it cover 3. You have a plus 1 advantage in the box unless the qb is a run threat, and its basically the same as cover 2(Tampa 2) in the game as far as zones it defends. The only difference is the who defends those zones and having the extra defender in the box.

You stop run in general by
1) having more in the box then the offense can block
2) Defending the gaps where they want to run



For example

This play is attacking the C gap. (Tip: don't go by what it say on playcall screen go by what it says on play art on the field)

(I just quickly google some images I don't own these)


So to defend this play generally you want someone in the c gap. What this will do is give the defender leverage to where the offense is attacking. What should happen is it will force the defender to bounce, which allows time for pursuit from you box players where you hopefully have a man free because you have more defenders in the box then they can block.
Thanks for the post,

Its my understanding that you can actually get Sky/Buzz/Cloud out of either cover 3/2 its just how you rotate the players.

I actually hate that scheme of techs, skipping 8 hurts my head.

How do you play gap sound defense vs inside runs in ncaa 14?
 

NavyHog

Well-Known Member
Utopia Moderator
NCAA Moderator
Thanks for the post,

Its my understanding that you can actually get Sky/Buzz/Cloud out of either cover 3/2 its just how you rotate the players.

I actually hate that scheme of techs, skipping 8 hurts my head.

How do you play gap sound defense vs inside runs in ncaa 14?
IMO there is little similarity between sound defense and vidya defense. I find more success with a 3 man front and 4-5 LBs and Safeties in the box. @bluejay13 is really sound with using a 4 man front and using a DT. I prefer to use a safety and force things inside that my LBs can clean up.
 
Thanks for the post,

Its my understanding that you can actually get Sky/Buzz/Cloud out of either cover 3/2 its just how you rotate the players.

You can i was speaking in general

I actually hate that scheme of techs, skipping 8 hurts my head.

I understand, worry more about what needs defending then whats number or gap its called.

How do you play gap sound defense vs inside runs in ncaa 14?

As best you can. Put people(linemen) in the gaps you need defended, have more guys then they can block, and probably some user d as well.
 
can someone explain the timing of switching to a defender and going for the interception, seems like I can never get what should be sure interceptions, but I face some users that are 100% interception on even very contested throws
 
I like to run an aggressive 3-4 with Cover 3, Cover 1, man & cover 2 depending on which package I’m running for the situation.

It’s a custom playbook that features a lot of formation subs in certain packages. It’s got a few 3-4 fronts, 3-3-5 Okie is my “nickel”, 3-2-6 as Dime, and a 5-2 front for short yardage/goal line situations.

I like this defense specially because you can attack from a lot of angles and I find the recruiting aspect really immersive. It takes a few seasons to really install with the personnel you need but I’ve had a lot of success (offline anyway).
 
I can do a longer breakdown when I can get on the 360 and pull up the playbook with the actual formation sets/subs and plays. My 34 functions almost more as a 43 Under if you flipped the front seven.

As far as personnel goes, I try to build the defense from the inside-out. I don’t focus so much on tendencies (run stopper or pass rusher, etc) as I do individual stats. You can find Run Stoppers that are faster than coverage/pass rush guys and vice versa.

NT - lynchpin of the entire defense. The game doesn’t double team but I still like to have a monster in this spot. Strength, block shed, power/finesse moves are the main things I look for. If they have good acceleration that’s an added bonus since they’re primarily shooting gaps. I don’t recruit anyone under 300lbs for this position but the bigger the better in my book (I’m a stickler for realism).

LDE - I view this position as what you’d typically see as a 3/5 tech. I still want a big body here that can shed blocks and push the pocket, but with more quicks than the NT. I like them to be 265-270lbs when recruiting with the goal for them to be close to 290 before they leave. You can find DEs that big so I don’t make a habit of getting a lighter DT and switching positions (it’s an option if you prefer).

RDE - 5/7 tech. Same rules apply, strong/block shedding with more of an emphasis on pass rushing than run stopping. I like these guys to be a little smaller/quicker than their left side counterparts but I’m not one to skimp on the beef. If I can have them in the 280 ballpark by graduation that is great.

LOLB - Think Von Miller/Khalil Mack for how I want to utilize them in the 34 packages. This guy is rushing every down (I don’t flip plays and remove anything that has them dropping into zone/running man). They also serve as my RDE in the nickel/dime sets (via formation subs). I recruit a DE and then change positions. You’ll take a knock in ratings, but I RS them almost always so in the end it doesn’t effect too much by the time they hit the field. Acceleration, finesse/power moves are key.

ROLB - Force defender for the right side of the defense in 34. I like guys who are athletic with good speed, tackling, coverage abilities, and pursuit. They are doing a little bit of everything from blitzing, playing man/zone, and running down ball carriers. I play them as a traditional OLB or MLB (depending on personnel) in the nickel/dime sets.

MLB - These guys can really make or break this defense so I spend a lot of time dissecting them as recruits. Awareness, acceleration & pursuit are big ones, with a different emphasis on run/coverage abilities for each (Mike/Jack). It’s a thing of beauty to see your LBs shooting gaps on run plays and racking up TFLs. For the Mike spot, I want a thumper who can fill the uncovered gaps and take on blocks without getting blown up. He needs good strength, block shedding + tackling/hit power ratings. Jack is more the scrape/cover LB so getting off blocks is still important but I want this guy to be quicker and able to get back into coverage over the middle or pick up a back coming out.

For the secondary I try to mimic what Seattle was doing with the Legion of Boom. I want a fast FS to cover the deep middle in cover 3 or single high in my 34 sets with two long, rangy corners for man/deep third. The SS is more for run support, but I like them to be good enough in coverage where TEs aren’t constantly beating them.

FS - Speed, acceleration, awareness and coverage abilities are important. Ball skills are obviously nice too. I need them be able to get sideline to sideline to cover over the top on deep balls or lock down the deep middle of the field.

CBs - Lockdown. Speed, agility, awareness, coverage. These guys are playing man and have deep 3rd responsibilities so I need them to be able to fly around. If I can get them with some tackling and hitting power stats it’s all the better.

SS - force defender and run supporter. Speed is nice but I like this position to have better tackling, hit power, and pursuit stats. I keep them down close to the box in most sets where they are either manning the TE or playing zone to the outside, but need be to able to hold their own in the run game. I like to stunt them with the LOLB to create mismatches in pass protection on occasion.

It takes a lot of time and attention to detail with recruiting/formation subs and some recruiting cycles to get all the personnel right, but I have enjoyed playing this defense more than any other I have tried.
 
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I can do a longer breakdown when I can get on the 360 and pull up the playbook with the actual formation sets/subs and plays. My 34 functions almost more as a 43 Under if you flipped the front seven.

As far as personnel goes, I try to build the defense from the inside-out. I don’t focus so much on tendencies (run stopper or pass rusher, etc) as I do individual stats. You can find Run Stoppers that are faster than coverage/pass rush guys and vice versa.

NT - lynchpin of the entire defense. The game doesn’t double team but I still like to have a monster in this spot. Strength, block shed, power/finesse moves are the main things I look for. If they have good acceleration that’s an added bonus since they’re primarily shooting gaps. I don’t recruit anyone under 300lbs for this position but the bigger the better in my book (I’m a stickler for realism).

LDE - I view this position as what you’d typically see as a 3/5 tech. I still want a big body here that can shed blocks and push the pocket, but with more quicks than the NT. I like them to be 265-270lbs when recruiting with the goal for them to be close to 290 before they leave. You can find DEs that big so I don’t make a habit of getting a lighter DT and switching positions (it’s an option if you prefer).

RDE - 5/7 tech. Same rules apply, strong/block shedding with more of an emphasis on pass rushing than run stopping. I like these guys to be a little smaller/quicker than their left side counterparts but I’m not one to skimp on the beef. If I can have them in the 280 ballpark by graduation that is great.

LOLB - Think Von Miller/Khalil Mack for how I want to utilize them in the 34 packages. This guy is rushing every down (I don’t flip plays and remove anything that has them dropping into zone/running man). They also serve as my RDE in the nickel/dime sets (via formation subs). I recruit a DE and then change positions. You’ll take a knock in ratings, but I RS them almost always so in the end it doesn’t effect too much by the time they hit the field. Acceleration, finesse/power moves are key.

ROLB - Force defender for the right side of the defense in 34. I like guys who are athletic with good speed, tackling, coverage abilities, and pursuit. They are doing a little bit of everything from blitzing, playing man/zone, and running down ball carriers. I play them as a traditional OLB or MLB (depending on personnel) in the nickel/dime sets.

MLB - These guys can really make or break this defense so I spend a lot of time dissecting them as recruits. Awareness, acceleration & pursuit are big ones, with a different emphasis on run/coverage abilities for each (Mike/Jack). It’s a thing of beauty to see your LBs shooting gaps on run plays and racking up TFLs. For the Mike spot, I want a thumper who can fill the uncovered gaps and take on blocks without getting blown up. He needs good strength, block shedding + tackling/hit power ratings. Jack is more the scrape/cover LB so getting off blocks is still important but I want this guy to be quicker and able to get back into coverage over the middle or pick up a back coming out.

For the secondary I try to mimic what Seattle was doing with the Legion of Boom. I want a fast FS to cover the deep middle in cover 3 or single high in my 34 sets with two long, rangy corners for man/deep third. The SS is more for run support, but I like them to be good enough in coverage where TEs aren’t constantly beating them.

FS - Speed, acceleration, awareness and coverage abilities are important. Ball skills are obviously nice too. I need them be able to get sideline to sideline to cover over the top on deep balls or lock down the deep middle of the field.

CBs - Lockdown. Speed, agility, awareness, coverage. These guys are playing man and have deep 3rd responsibilities so I need them to be able to fly around. If I can get them with some tackling and hitting power stats it’s all the better.

SS - force defender and run supporter. Speed is nice but I like this position to have better tackling, hit power, and pursuit stats. I keep them down close to the box in most sets where they are either manning the TE or playing zone to the outside, but need be to able to hold their own in the run game. I like to stunt them with the LOLB to create mismatches in pass protection on occasion.

It takes a lot of time and attention to detail with recruiting/formation subs and some recruiting cycles to get all the personnel right, but I have enjoyed playing this defense more than any other I have tried.
I like your idea about always having RLB always blitzing. That is the main reason I never used/liked the 3-4. I always felt my best pass rushers(OLB's) had to drop in coverage half the time. Every time I had 3-4 defense I usually try tried to switch it to a 4-3 and have the OLB become DE's because of this, or play more of a nickle base defense. One last thing in a traditional 3-4 defense do you slant the DE's away from you RLB since if it is a pass, the Left Side De (at least imo) isn't in a good position to contain the qb from the 5tech spot?

Good post nice to have football talk on the board again.