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Spread-I Offense 2.0

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
I haven't actually worked on it yet, but I think starting next season I'm going to use more QB Slot Option type of plays to "create" run pass option IZ + Bubble type of action in the offense. As of now, I only really have traditional triple option plays in the playbook but I don't really run them at all. I can probably count the number of triple option plays I ran this season at Clemson on one hand, but I think I might get some use out Slot Option as IZ + Bubble.

Obviously if I'm getting nothing but aggressive option defense it won't matter, but even then it should get the alley defender out of the box regardless since he'll follow the "bubble". I'll still mostly run IZ/IZR but this would be a good little compliment to it. I'll still have a true bubble throw quick audible in any formation a slot option exists, but this should give me a RPO-type of look.

I'm probably going to ditch all the triple options I have, including motion triple options, in favor of this. Triple option really isn't a Malzahn type of concept and I'm not really running it in Powerhouse because I'm always afraid the mesh would get jacked up running it out of HUNH. We'll see if it works.

I also think I'm going to add one of the Pistol Wing Trips/Slot Trips formations in just so I can get a PA Bootleg. I may just replace Pistol Full House with that since I only really used Pistol Full House once or twice this season.
 

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
I spent the last couple of days working on my offense. I figured out some issues with it that caused me problems.

First issue was while I had many formations... They generally did the same things! They were all 11 or 12 personnel attacking the same areas. So it wasn't hard to figure out what I was doing.

Secondly... I was unknowingly throwing my own plays timing off. I had become accustomed to manually controlling the QB's drop. I had started doing this from being in OD's where guys ran nano's... And it became habit.

So I scrapped my playbook and started from scratch. What I have is still spread... But more of a multiple or pro spread offense. I'm not just 11 or 12. Now I have 11,12, 20, 21, and 22 personnel formations. I have a variety of looks too... From under center to pistol to split backs and shotgun.

I can pretty much attack the whole field from each set. That's something I wasn't able to do b4. This also fits the personnel I usually have. I tend to have great FB's that never see the field unless I use them as a RB or 2nd TE.

I thought of going to a Run & Shoot uptempo scheme... But thought I'd run into some of the same issues I had b4.
We'll see how this goes... Played an unranked game and liked what I was able to do.

My opponent only stop of my offense all game came on a fumble by my receiver. He tried to quarter's run commit glitch me... I audible and my receiver beat his corner. I placed the ball perfectly and had only the SS to beat. I did a spin move and lost the SS but it allowed the corner to catch up. The corner hit the receiver and he fumbled.. Smh!

I think I was Something like 24-27 387 with 2 TD's and 0 picks or sacks. I ran for close to another 200. I could/should have run the ball more... But I was working on allowing the cpu to auto drop.

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nofx94

Active Member
It's cool that you've been able to combine pro and spread stuff. I have a spread-I playbook that's mostly offset gun with some 2-back gun. All gun book, based on this thread. And then I have a spread wing-T built on someone's (I think Husker's) post in either this thread or the spread thread. I want to combine stripped down versions of those playbooks with some QB-run blast/power/wrap stuff (I have a 92 speed senior QB and an 83 speed 234lb sophomore QB) as inspired by seeing Louisville and Clemson's QBs IRL the past few days - and because I've recruited all these TEs that I can use for 12 gun sets - and mix it with ace, pistol, and in-line I, like OU did/does. But to do that reasonably I'll have to limit concepts. Lol. The quandary of wanting to do everything
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
It's cool that you've been able to combine pro and spread stuff. I have a spread-I playbook that's mostly offset gun with some 2-back gun. All gun book, based on this thread. And then I have a spread wing-T built on someone's (I think Husker's) post in either this thread or the spread thread. I want to combine stripped down versions of those playbooks with some QB-run blast/power/wrap stuff (I have a 92 speed senior QB and an 83 speed 234lb sophomore QB) as inspired by seeing Louisville and Clemson's QBs IRL the past few days - and because I've recruited all these TEs that I can use for 12 gun sets - and mix it with ace, pistol, and in-line I, like OU did/does. But to do that reasonably I'll have to limit concepts. Lol. The quandary of wanting to do everything

Depending on what your FB/TE situation looks like, I'd highly recommend basing out of 21/12 personnel. Focus on Ace, Strong I, and traditional Gun (with Wildcat). You can maybe blend in some Pistol, but I think you'd find yourself not using much of it if you really want to be QB heavy in the run game. Pistol is good if you're using option, not so much otherwise. I'd look at what Kansas State is doing (nice little write-up) and go from there.

Of the top of my head, I'd look at something like:

Ace
Ace Twins
Ace Slot
Ace Y Trips

Strong I Normal
Strong I Twins
Strong I Twins Over
Strong I Twin TE

Gun Ace
Gun Ace Twins
Gun Twin TE Slot
Gun Twin TE Slot Wk
Gun Normal
Gun Normal Wk
Gun Y Trips
Gun Y Trips Wk
Gun Spread

Wildcat Slot
Wildcat Spread
Wildcat Spread Flex
Wildcat Wing

That's pretty much all 12, 21, 10 personnel. If you wanted heavier, you can add in Goal Line Heavy and if you wanted some more Jet stuff, Gun F Twins Over but that is a good starting point. Out of the Gun, you'll have QB Power, Blast and Wrap in almost every single one of those formations. Under center, you can have a decent zone run game.

If you want to run some option, replace Strong I with I Normal and maybe add in some Split Gun (Twin TE Slot Wk has a seamless audible to Split Twins if you want to motion the wing into the backfield).

Were I in a situation where I had a 92 SPD QB I wanted to feature, I'd focus on something just like that.
 

nofx94

Active Member
My man! Y'all are gurus.

You find Ace Twins to be much better than TwinTE Slot?

I use under-center option a lot in 07, but not a ton in 14. So I'm not sure about which version of I I will end up using.

I do run a lot of option, which is why I like pistol. Slot and wing over especially. I may just add those two and maybe full house.

I also notice you didn't have any offset gun in there. Any particular reason why?
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
My man! Y'all are gurus.

You find Ace Twins to be much better than TwinTE Slot?

I use under-center option a lot in 07, but not a ton in 14. So I'm not sure about which version of I I will end up using.

I do run a lot of option, which is why I like pistol. Slot and wing over especially. I may just add those two and maybe full house.

I also notice you didn't have any offset gun in there. Any particular reason why?

I prefer Twin TE Slot just because I love the twin TE alignment, but I like Gun Ace Twins because it has both a motion option and a motion option pass (as well as a Jet Sweep). If you have a fast slot receiver (or second tailback) it makes for a nice little series of plays. Plus there is still QB Power.

If you do want Pistol, Twin TE Slot and Wing Over plus Slot are good ones to add.

That group of formations would have all the makings of a Wing-T style spread with the QB as your primary ball carrier. You can move guys around and run Jet and Buck Sweeps and still have Wrap and Power.
 

nofx94

Active Member
Beautiful. I was asking specifically in the context of the under center sets. Is there a reason you run twins there instead of twin tight? I dig twin tight, gun or wherever
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Beautiful. I was asking specifically in the context of the under center sets. Is there a reason you run twins there instead of twin tight? I dig twin tight, gun or wherever

Under center Ace Twins is a really good passing formation and the HB Power play (towards the twins side) is actually a really nicely designed toss play. I use it a lot in my Osborne offense, not sure if I'd use it as much in something like this.

It really depends what you're looking to do when you go under center. If you're looking to go under center just to run zone and play action, I like Ace Twins because you get a 7 man surface to run either direction and a 3x1 formation to pass out of. You can always motion to Twin TE Slot if you just want an extra man play side to run the ball.

Now if you want to use some of those auto-motion plays, then Twin TE Slot is fantastic and has some really nice pass concepts off of that motion.
 

Auburnoffense

New Member
I really did enjoy your spread I 2.0 series on Gus malzahn offense... Of I missed it... I was waiting the PUT IT ALL TOGETHER part of your article... Did I miss it or decided not to do did?
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
I really did enjoy your spread I 2.0 series on Gus malzahn offense... Of I missed it... I was waiting the PUT IT ALL TOGETHER part of your article... Did I miss it or decided not to do did?

I ended up not doing it because I ended up not even using it at the time. At the time I started doing this write up, I started to transition to more of a Pistol pro-style offense here because of the set of personnel I had.

I'm actually back to running essentially everything in the write-up now, with hurry up no huddle, so I might go back and do a quick write-up specifically focused on running it with tempo.
 

Auburnoffense

New Member
I really need help with my audibles... I love the 2010 auburn offense... I have it all most like I want but I'm have trouble with my personal on my depth chart and ESPECIALLY MY PA IN WING GUN SETS... THEY NEVER WORK RIGHT.. IM A HEAVY IZ SPILT AND IZ GUY... NEED YOUR HELP MAN...
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
I really need help with my audibles... I love the 2010 auburn offense... I have it all most like I want but I'm have trouble with my personal on my depth chart and ESPECIALLY MY PA IN WING GUN SETS... THEY NEVER WORK RIGHT.. IM A HEAVY IZ SPILT AND IZ GUY... NEED YOUR HELP MAN...

What issues are you having with your depth chart? Without having any sort of position specific depth chart, the only way to guarantee certain players will stay at a certain spot in the formation is to use formation subs.

Where you place guys on your depth chart depends entirely on the players. Generally speaking, I put my best pass catching WR at WR1, my best press break WR at WR2 and my most athletic WR at WR3. If you have one fast HB and one slower power back, I would put the fast back at HB1 and the power back at HB2 so you can use the HB Slot/WR packages to get the speedier scatback type HB on the perimeter without using formation subs.

If you have a pass catching TE and a blocking TE, put the pass catcher at TE1 and the blocking TE at both TE2 and FB1. You can use the TE Slot packages in every formation to get the pass catching TE in the slot and get the blocking TE on the field as the wing. Most of those packages have a TE Sub or FB Wing formation as well to just put the blocking TE at the Wing.

It really depends on what you have, without seeing it, it is tough to give much more advice than that.

In terms of play action out of wing gun, I don't actually use any play action out of any wing gun formation. I've set my playbook up so that my play action plays in wing gun sets are either the PA Bubble or PA SE Screen play. The PA Read and other various PAs do not work all that well. If you're struggling with PA Read, I would highly recommend using R2/RT to cancel the play action animation immediately after the QB/HB connect. The standard PA Read animation in offset gun takes your QB into the offensive line and messes up his footwork, if you cancel it right as the QB/HB mesh, you get the same result but with better footwork and not taken right into the LOS.
 

Auburnoffense

New Member
Thanks alot....!!!! One last thing.How do you set up your audibles... What configuration do you have for that in this offense or any HUNH offense... I love your motion with triple option offense but I would love that with more PA. With motion... Last thing!!!!!
I promise...
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Thanks alot....!!!! One last thing.How do you set up your audibles... What configuration do you have for that in this offense or any HUNH offense... I love your motion with triple option offense but I would love that with more PA. With motion... Last thing!!!!!
I promise...

For HUNH, my audibles are set up solely to get me in and out of formations that I couldn't otherwise get to in tempo. For example, if I'm based in 11 personnel Normal Flex Wing, I couldn't get to Spread Flex going HUNH so I will go hurry up, call a random play and quickly audible to Spread Flex so I'm in Spread Flex before my team is even lined up.

As of now, my audibles are:

LB - Wing Offset Wk HB Counter
RB - 4WR Trio Str PA Bubble*
Y - Split Offset Cross Buck
X - Normal Offset Wk Lead Read Option
A - Spread Flex Z Spot

That set of formations essentially lets me get in and out of every core formation via HUNH without staying in the same "grouping".

The * there is because I often audible from Spread Flex to 4WR Trio Str Bubble at the LOS in order to take advantage of users giving me awkward alignments. I believe @CoachTuck was the first to suggest that idea and I've run with it here.

Generally speaking, I don't audible at the line of scrimmage in this offense. It only slows things down, I want to line up and snap it instantly. Occasionally I'll line up, do a hard count and then look over the defense and audible but I only audible inside the formation using quick audibles. The key is calling a play "in the huddle" (at the HUNH play call screen) that augments the quick audibles. I'll call Counter Y in the huddle often, then if the look I want isn't there just quickly audible to the inside zone play in that formation and run it.

The second season in Powerhouse is just starting so I'm going to be making a few changes to the audibles and playbook to streamline some things but the overall goal will be the same. I'm actually going to try and make it more Malzahn-like this year, last year I threw a decent amount and had more pass concept than I really needed. Even the games I ran over 80 plays and threw over 40 times I probably didn't run more than 10 different pass plays.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Just to expand on that last post, I think the overarching philosophy to being HUNH in NCAA is to focus less on your initial huddle call and more about getting the personnel you want out there.

Any time I huddle, I'm typically just calling a really generic inside zone read play or a screen. Very rarely am I huddling up to get to something specific, I'm just trying to get in the right personnel grouping with the right personnel. I formation sub a slightly different set of personnel in each formation to make sure I have fresh players in the spot I want them, rather than risk someone getting tired or hurt and everyone else moving up the depth chart and ending up out of position. Doing that keeps players fresher and rotates a lot more players into the game than I normally would.

Once your initial huddle call is made and you're in the personnel grouping you want to be, it is all about having a feel for the play calling. Don't be afraid to double or triple up on calls if it worked, that's something Malzahn does consistently and I got away from it early on in my Spread-I trying to be too cute. If something works, run it over and over again. I do that with read option when I happen to catch someone in conservative option defense. I'll crank off 3-4 read plays in a row. Then huddle up, knowing most users will then switch to aggressive option defense, and exploit that with counters and traps plus my screen game.

In terms of going in and out formations, my goal is typically to call my next formation based on where my players ended up the previous play. If I called a play with crossing routes, I'll call my next formation with the receivers on the side their routes were run to. I'll do my best to stay in the same type of formation (2x1, 2x2, 3x1) until the defense adjusts to it.

Once in a while, I will jump into a "trick" formation out of a certain grouping. I'll jump from 11 personnel wing gun to 11 personnel Wildcat Fight Song to throw that vertical route up the seam. Typically in the red zone off tempo. Or I'll jump under center real quick to run an automotion play or PA TE Screen. That sort of thing. The type of tricks varies on the personnel I have that season.
 

JSU Zack

How do I IT?
I often audible from Spread Flex to 4WR Trio Str Bubble at the LOS in order to take advantage of users giving me awkward alignments. I believe @CoachTuck was the first to suggest that idea and I've run with it here.

So, you basically motion the slot and throw the bubble to him? Lots of schools do this - even Bama.

Generally speaking, I don't audible at the line of scrimmage in this offense. It only slows things down, I want to line up and snap it instantly. Occasionally I'll line up, do a hard count and then look over the defense and audible but I only audible inside the formation using quick audibles. The key is calling a play "in the huddle" (at the HUNH play call screen) that augments the quick audibles. I'll call Counter Y in the huddle often, then if the look I want isn't there just quickly audible to the inside zone play in that formation and run it.

TBH, this may be a weakness. I know you're all about speed, but with offset formations, a defense could line up in an even 4-4 front and wreck both the counter and inside zone (in theory). Counter and IZ are only effective against a 1 /3 tech combo. A traditional 4-4 front like the one below would negate the running threat if those are the only runs you rely on. This is why most spread teams also use outside zone & power as they attack 2/4/6 techs.

4-4_vs_11.png

4-4_Defense__3_-_Fina.png
 

CoachTuck

Member
So, you basically motion the slot and throw the bubble to him? Lots of schools do this - even Bama.



TBH, this may be a weakness. I know you're all about speed, but with offset formations, a defense could line up in an even 4-4 front and wreck both the counter and inside zone (in theory). Counter and IZ are only effective against a 1 /3 tech combo. A traditional 4-4 front like the one below would negate the running threat if those are the only runs you rely on. This is why most spread teams also use outside zone & power as they attack 2/4/6 techs.

View attachment 2262

View attachment 2263
It's just going from balanced to unbalanced it fouls up base and nickel defenses unless they're in cover 3 but anything else should be a bubble or a handoff


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JSU Zack

How do I IT?
I need to speed up then knowing he goes at 80 makes me feel slow


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Tempo isn't a magic bullet. It's a tactic. Use it wisely. If you're successful with 60 plays, stick to it. Don't get caught up in play numbers if it hurts your efficiency. A better metric is yards per play and points per possession.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
What's your qtr length for you to get 80 plays off ?


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I get off at the most 60 where's my other 20 plays at lol


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@TXHusker05 goes really fast. He typically has :20 left on the playclock and almost never audibles.

Here are my stats for last season, keeping in mind I switched from slow methodical under center power offense to ultra HUNH spread in Week 6. I averaged 66 plays per game over the full season, which includes the first 4 games where I was going very slow and then the last 10. It also includes CPU and User play.

Typically, I'm in the 60 play range against users. Most users are just too good on offense and so they're holding the ball longer and limiting the plays I can run. Against the CPU, I'm consistently in the 80 range. The most I've run in a game is 107, I think the least I ran in a game was the user v user ACC Championship game where I ran only 54 but that was because I was up 35-7 10 minutes into the game and the user let me finish vs CPU and I just chewed clock to end it fast. Still had 516 yards in the game, nearly 300 of them in the first half.

You really can't get bogged down in the play numbers since it really does depend entirely on the game. There are games where 40-50 games is all you need and going any faster puts your defense at risk, there are games where you're just going rapid fire and running as many plays as you can.

Like Zack said, I'm absolutely flying up and down the field. I have my next play called within 5 seconds of the HUNH play call menu showing up, before my team is even lined up from the play before, and I'm ready to go. I rarely audible out of the formation I'm in, only audibling using the 4 in-formation quick audibles.

I'll slow it down some if I'm facing a user giving me weird shifts or if I see something I don't like. I'll just do one hard count and then wait a bit to see if the user stems. You can't go one speed all game long, especially if that speed is super hurry up tempo. If you snap the ball right as the defense is stemming into a different look, more often than not those guys will run right through the blocking. If I'm getting weird looks, I'll hurry up to the line and wait a few seconds to see what happens and adjust as necessary. Most of the time, users are adjusting their defense completely out of the play and all I have to do is wait for them to finish and run the play I had called originally.

Knowing your playbook is important to tempo. Knowing where everything is, having it ordered in a way that makes sense to you when you're on the fly and knowing what you want to run next before you even run the play before. I have hash specific formations and play calls in this offense, stuff I'll only run on one hash or the other (or only in the middle of the field) and I'll have formations and play calls that I only use +25 going in or -25 going out. Segmenting everything to where you have a limit number of calls depending on the outcome of the previous play really helps speed things up. I still need to adjust the playbook to clean things up though.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
So, you basically motion the slot and throw the bubble to him? Lots of schools do this - even Bama.



TBH, this may be a weakness. I know you're all about speed, but with offset formations, a defense could line up in an even 4-4 front and wreck both the counter and inside zone (in theory). Counter and IZ are only effective against a 1 /3 tech combo. A traditional 4-4 front like the one below would negate the running threat if those are the only runs you rely on. This is why most spread teams also use outside zone & power as they attack 2/4/6 techs.

View attachment 2262

View attachment 2263

The only time I can remember someone using a legit 4-4 against me (not 425), they pinched their line with it which let me run Counter about 20 times for a billion yards. I'm pretty sure I'm the only user in our ODs that actually uses a traditional 4-4 so I don't need to worry about that too much, I also don't think the traditional 4-4 in game has the tackles lined up as a true 2 technique head on the tackle, they are slightly to the outside shoulder if I remember correctly which makes a big difference in the IZ game.

I'm also going so fast that most people aren't adjusting their defense. Whatever defensive alignment they are in on my first play is typically the one they are in until I huddle again because they just can't scroll through the playbook to switch defensive alignments before I'm ready to snap it again. They'll try to shift some guys around but that will rarely impact what I'm doing at this speed. Tempo forces the defense to be vanilla, that's the key. Were I going slow, IZ and Counter wouldn't be enough but going this fast, it is more than enough.

Much like Gus Malzahn has entirely ditched outside zone from his offense, I have zero need for it. I can stretch the perimeter with speed option and screens. My inside zone game can hit from B gap to B gap as necessary so even if someone is getting cute with fronts and taking away the A-Gap towards the back's alignment where I'm aiming, I can bounce it as far wide as the opposite B-Gap if necessary.

Don't sleep on both Trap and one back Power (as HB Counter) in Offset Gun. I use Trap mainly to attack that 3 tech player, but even if he is shifted anywhere from a 2/2i to a 4i I can trap him just fine. I actually like it when someone has a 4i/2i/2i/4i type of front because not only can I run Counter but Trap actually turns into tight power because the BSG will kick the 4i end rather than a tackle.

The reality is, I have the full amount of core concepts that any spread team has. I have IZ and all its variations, I have outside zone (jet), I have two back Counter and one back Power, I have Trap, I have various option plays (speed/load) and I've actually started running a few Draws which is rare for me but has ended up being kind of useful. I've been over this a million times deciding if I could get away with just offset gun or if I needed "traditional" gun to compliment it and I just don't. Having outside zone just isn't that important. The spread guys I admire most rarely, if ever, run outside zone anymore. Even Urban Meyer has gotten away from traditional outside zone and focused more on tight zone, tight power and counter. OSU only runs outside zone as Jet or as QB Sweeps out of Empty (two things I also do). Other teams like Oregon have ditched traditional OZ in favor of pin and pull sweep type of plays.

OZ itself just isn't a vital play to spread offenses any longer, you can stretch the perimeter with any number of other plays including screens and having an answer for every specific front just isn't necessary. Most of their core plays can be tweaked in such a way that the answer for various fronts is built in. Even back in the Osborne Nebraska days, each play was tweaked to have an answer for every front (the playbook I posted has every play drawn vs every front).

Plus, all that real football stuff out of the way, gun outside zone and power don't work very well in the game. OZ can only be run toward the TE side and once all base roster WRs (with block ratings) are gone, you're going to start getting unblocked alley defenders forcing OZ back inside almost immediately (which is why I ditched OZ to begin with). Power in game is hit or miss, occasionally it works, usually it doesn't. I like one back counter in gun because it is the closest to actual power that exists in game. It is part Power, part Trap and part Counter backfield action.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Someone remind me to put together at least some sort of write-up on my HUNH. I'm still ironing out the playbook so it won't be until that is done, but after that I'll try and get something up. For some reason, I have formations with broken in-formation audibles despite being identical to the playbook I posted on the bottom of Page 4 of this thread for my Spread-I Triple offense. I'm not sure what happened there but it is frustrating to figure out.

The core of the offense really isn't that different from the Spread-I Triple playbook, I just have a bit more passing in there. I am starting to consider allowing myself to flip my formations though. Generally I never, ever flip formations and just leave formations as is but I've encountered a few situations where I wish I could go 3x1 Wing to the field and align my back to the boundary when I'm on the right hash. The never flip formations thing was started early on because I did so many jump audibles where I needed my formations to be "right side up" for audibling in and out of them but since I'm going so fast now and not audibling out of formation, I may just skip that. I think that would allow me to lessen the number of total formations I have as well.

I'm also debating what type of specials I want to put in. Right now it is just 2 Ace, 4 Strong and a few Wildcat but I might plug in a few unique specials/fire alarms that I can jump into via tempo or open a drive with. One of those may be using Pistol Slot Flex Wing to create Army Throwback. I really want a throwback wheel route off of bootleg to my TE. Any time I run that in my Pistol Spread-I it hit for about 25 yards 99.9% of the time. It is never, ever covered. I'd probably adjust it and pair it with "Gold" play side (which is just a pivot/comeback combo) rather than verts though.

BlackArmyThrowback_zps8e4484c4.png


The trick plays and specials I do have right now really have been golden though, I hit big plays off of those, especially +25 going in and first play following a big play to cross the 50.
 

Auburnoffense

New Member
Man you have some great stuff man. Really help me out... I love the HUNH offense any info is a plus... especially the articles that motion your running back intothe back field or motion your receivers... I need more of that to throw off the defense
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
I've been working on trying to create a play sheet that has all my in-formation audibles on it as well as a list of plays that I like to run in special situations (2pt, goal line, 3rd & 11+, 4th down, etc). Getting something to work and that is also useful is causing me some issues, partially because I've only ever done this on Windows and I'm on a Mac now but also because fitting the things I want on a one sided sheet is causing me problems.

Gus Malzahn has multiple play sheets, typically on a clipboard but the top one is essentially a situational play sheet based on hash. Three columns; left, center and right hash and then down & distance or yard line landmarks top to bottom. Plus a few series of scripted plays.

malzahncallsheetback.png


That is actually how I call plays in game, by landmark. But what I mainly need is a sheet that has all my in-formation audibles on it for each formation plus a list of my pre-set audibles and then special situation stuff. I guess I could do it back to back but I'd rather not.

What I've come up with so far is this:

Screen Shot 2016-01-13 at 18.17.21.png

It is an incomplete template with placeholder audibles for each formation but what I'm thinking is formation graphics with quick audibles listed in the grid to the left and then in the two columns on the right, do special situation stuff (series openers, home run shots, specials, 3rd & Long, 4th & Short) plus a list of my current 5 pre-set audibles. I may color code the formations by grouping as well, but that's not vital.

This is actually based on one of Gus Malzahn's scrimmage play sheets. I'd obviously be limited in what I can put on the right side, it is only two columns, but at least it would give me something. The worst thing is just totally forgetting about a certain play or concept until it is too late and it happens a lot for me. I get too caught up running one thing that I forget to run something I wanted to run.

The other idea would be to just do something in list form, sort of a hybrid of the two. Not doing the formation graphics would save space and let me add some other special situational things but I actually kind of like the graphics. They aren't the best looking, but not bad. As long as I have my in-formation audibles, pre-set audibles and some basic situational stuff I'd be happy.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Were the Pound the Rock boulder that is in my avatar a trophy I sent home with the player who made the most absurd Hulk smash run of the season, it would be to my fullback/diveback in the Spread-I Triple offense at Army. This run is just silly.


He rushed 22 times for 281 yards against bluejay in the Sun Belt Conference Championship, that run is just the best of many like it.

The lesson of that video being, don't ignore the unlimited amount of bigger low to mid 80s speed backs with high BTK/TRK type of ratings in favor of the smaller scatbacks with 90s speed everyone seems to love. There is an unlimited supply of low to mid 80s speed high BTK/TRK backs in this game, both at HB and at ATH (especially ATH). It is easy to recruit them in user heavy ODs because people all battle for the faster higher rated guys, but the mid-70s OVR, low to mid 80s speed backs and athletes can be just as deadly in the right offense. Seems like every class I end up with a couple backs like that and a couple ATH that are tweener types I'm not sure where to put, be it QB, HB, WR or DB. When in doubt, HB is always fun.

Obviously those of you running more traditional offenses with east-west stretch runs or more pass first offenses that need a scatback out of the backfield aren't going to get much use from a low-80s SPD sledgehammer at tailback but in my offense where everything is downhill inside zone type stuff, someone like this gold.

That entire game was spent alternating between inside zone plays, traps, one back counter trap plays and also using Jet Sweep with my slotback (10 for 90) to stretch the perimeter when the defense squeezed down. Spread can still be smashmouth.

the-avengers-angry-hulk-smash-loki.gif
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Here are my statistics after one full season running the Spread-I Triple Option offense. I finished the season 14-0, winning both the Sun Belt and National Championship Game.

Team Stats

767 Rushes for 6006 yards, 76 TD (54.8 rush attempts per game for 429 yards per game)

48 of 65 Passing for 642 yards (4.65 pass attempts per game), 6 TD, 1 INT (the INT was the final pass of the year, an end of half hail mary in the national championship).

Obviously I led the nation in rushing and was dead last in passing. I had a 92-8% run-pass ratio.

Individual Stats

Passing

Chris Harris - 46 of 62 (74%) for 613 yards, 6 TD, 1 INT
Team - 2 of 3 for 29 yards

The majority of those passes were screens, in the Sun Belt Championship Game vs bluejay, I completed 10 of 11 passes, all 10 were bubble screens. 9 to my starting slotback.

Rushing

Chris Harris (QB) - 181 rush attempts for 1770 yards (9.7ypc), 22 TD (both Army school records)
Egbezien Obiomon (SB) - 194 rush attempts for 1694 yards (8.7ypc), 19 TD
Marcelino Christie (HB) - 94 rush attempts for 674 yards (7.1ypc), 8 TD*****
Kelly Grant (FB) - 114 rush attempts for 663 yards (5.8ypc), 11 TD
Lawrence Price (FB) - 78 rush attempts for 490 yards (6.2ypc), 5 TD
Louis Napoles (HB) - 66 rush attempts for 412 yards (6.2ypc), 6 TD
Christian Reed (SB) - 14 rush attempts for 119 yards (8.5ypc), 3 TD
James Parrish (HB) - 7 rush attempts for 57 yards (8.1), 1 TD
Mike Richards and Gene Thomas (QB) - 17 combined rushes for 96 yards, 1 TD

Receiving

Egbezien Obiomon (SB) - 20 receptions for 193 yards, 3 TD
Lawrence Price (FB) - 4 receptions for 44 yards
Jeff Ejekam (WR) - 4 receptions for 49 yards
Mike Powell (TE) - 4 receptions for 56 yards, TD
Sam Butler (TE) - 4 receptions for 62 yards
Alex Carter (TE) - 3 receptions for 56 yards
Christian Reed (SB) - 2 receptions for 56 yards
Jermaine Adams (WR) - 2 receptions for 73 yards
Kelly Grant (FB) - 2 receptions for 33 yards, TD
Marcelino Christie (HB) - 2 receptions for 20 yards, TD

=========================================

To explain the positions a bit, my team has 4 very good TEs (all Sophomores) and I distributed all 4 across the WR and Wing TE positions. Powell is my best blocking TE, and he played the wing role because of it and also played an on the line TE in my various singleback gun sets. Butler and Carter were my WR/TE hybrids. They were on the field in almost every formation. Ejekam, my lone WR, was on the field as a solo side WR in formations like Wing Offset Wk, Trio 4WR, etc with the idea that I could isolate him and throw slants and screens to him as necessary. He is also a solid blocker.

Obiomon was my slotback, lining up in the slot in every formation either via formation sub or HB Slot package sub. I never flipped formations to make sure my subs and packages didn't get screwed, so I only ran certain formations on the left hash and certain formations on the right hash, etc. Christie was my diveback, lining up in the backfield. Honestly, he was the best player in my offense because he could block enough to be effective in jet and was a devastating downhill runner. But (the *****) he was hurt in Week 6 and missed the remainder of the regular season, only coming back in the National Championship. I tried to play my 3rd string HB, Napoles, there but didn't like it and ended up playing my two Fullbacks, Price and Grant, as downhill divebacks which more or less turned it into a Gun Flexbone offense.

I also formation subbed those two Fullbacks in various formations. When Christie went down, I subbed Grant into Normal Flex Wing to lead block for my Jet series. I also had him subbed into the backfield in Spread Offset, with my two slotbacks in the slot and two TE out wide, mainly to run Trap and check to bubble.

The offense itself was deadly and equally effective against users as it was vs the CPU. I was really worried about how I'd be able to attack users who inevitably went to aggressive option defense to stop me, I figured I'd have to go to the air to beat that, but it turns out I didn't. Over 14 games, I averaged 4.65 pass attempts per game. My max pass attempts in a game was 11, which came in the Sun Belt Championship. After an incompletion on a 3rd down slant pass, I completed all 10 of my passes, every single one of which was a bubble screen. Of the 48 completed pass attempts on the season, I bet 30 were screens (20 bubble screens to Obiomon, 5 bubbles to my other backs, 4 now screens to the WR). That's my constraint. If you leave him uncovered to load the box, I'm throwing it out there every time.

Of the rest, I threw quite a bit of pop passes to my FB/Wing TE out of the backfield off of Motion Option. Slot F Wing Motion Option Pass became one of my go to red zone plays vs users, with the wing FB hot routed to a seam. You get a corner route with that TE and then a seam pop pass trailing him. I also took to creating Y Corner in Spread Flex Motion Option Pass. I also ran a ton of shovel passes, but not as much vs users as I did vs the CPU. I did run 6 shovel passes, all 6 pass attempts in the game, against Toctsx. Shovel gets dicey so didn't want to risk it vs users.

For the most part, I stuck to my base inside zone, read, triple base. Using a bunch of motion option left and right and audibling my slot into the backfield off and on using my Split Offset/Split Y Offset audibles. Those audibles especially were deadly vs users because if you don't cover him, I can just throw to him real quick. If you do, I can audible him into the backfield and run option with numbers. In situations where I was getting a ton of aggressive option defense, I took to running a TON of Counter. Ever since I figured out that motioning the wing/H across the formation to arc block the safety on two back offset counter was a devastating play, I used the hell out of it to take advantage of aggressive option defense. I still ran a ton of option and was content just handing it off, but then I'd break out counter and it would go for monster gains.

After one full season, I'm going to go through the playbook and just start ripping out the stuff that I didn't run and really slim down the playbook as much as possible. I would love to get it down to 200 plays, but that may be tough just because of the number of formations. Will update the playbook once that is done. Ironically, the offense is so balanced in terms of who carries the ball that none of my offensive players won awards.

All things considered, this was incredibly enjoyable. I've always wanted to run a Gun Triple offense but never really got around to it. Finally have a situation where I can run it and it has been money so far.

Well, second full season is in the books in the Spread-I Triple Option. The second was just as successful as the first, finishing 13-1 and winning the Sun Belt and National Championship for the second consecutive year.

Team Stats
(Last season in parentheses)

642 rushes for 5153 yards, 66 TD (45.9 rush attempts per game for 368.1 yards per game)
(767 Rushes for 6006 yards, 76 TD, 54.8 rush attempts per game for 429 yards per game last season)

161 of 201 (80%) passing for 2023 yards, 13 TD, 7 INT.
(48 of 65 (74%) passing for 642 yards, 6 TD, 1 INT last season)

844 total plays (60.2 per game) for 7176 total yards with a 76-24% run-pass ratio.
(832 (59.4 per game) for 6648 total yards with a 92-8% run-pass ratio last year)

So I ran almost the exact same number of plays in total but for a little over 500 more yards. I also threw more, obviously.

Individual Stats

Passing

Chris Harris - 147 of 185 (79%) for 1823 yards, 11 TD, 7 INT
Mike Richards - 14 of 16 (87%) for 200 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT

Rushing

Kelly Grant (FB) - 244 rush attempts for 1782 yards (7.3ypc), 23 TD (both are Army school records set last year)
Chris Harris (QB) - 190 rush attempts for 1606 yards (8.4ypc), 24 TD
Marcelino Christie (SB) - 118 rush attempts for 1218 yards (10.3ypc), 12 TD
Lawrence Price (FB) - 62 rushes for 336 yards (5.4ypc), 4 TD

4 others had carries totaling less than 100 yards.

Receiving

Marcelino Christie (SB) - 54 receptions for 612 yards, 1 TD
Alex Carter (TE) - 25 receptions for 443 yards, 2 TD
Kelly Grant (FB) - 19 receptions for 193 yards, 0 TD
Sam Butler (TE) - 18 receptions for 259 yards, 4 TD
Jeff Ejekam (WR) - 17 receptions for 274 yards, 3 TD
Mike Powell (TE) - 11 receptions for 111 yards, 2 TD
Lawrence Price (FB) - 10 receptions for 85 yards, 1 TD
Brian Woodward (SB) - 6 receptions for 27 yards
Jermaine Adams (WR) - 1 reception for 19 yards

147 pancake blocks as a team
=========================================

Comparing and contrasting the quoted post from last season with this current season, it is interesting to see how things changed. It is still a run heavy option offense with TEs across the various WR and TE/H-Back positions, all 4 TE returned as did both FB. My lone WR played some and had some carries here and there, but not many.

What changed is slotback/diveback. Last year's slotback was my second leading rusher and leading receiver but he graduated. His replacement at slotback was the diveback from last year, who spent much of last year injured. I have zero tailback depth here so he was the only option. Had I thought it through, I would have moved the top WR to HB and played him as the slotback but I didn't and I can't have a WR there because it messes up the in-formation audibles. That left my two fullbacks to carry the load as dive back.

Initially, Price was the main diveback because he's the more athletic of the two but Kelly Grant took over after a few games and was unbelievably good (see video above). He was just a battering ram of a diveback which is exactly what I'm looking for. The diveback in this offense really is the fullback/B-Back of a typical flexbone option offense. He's 77 OVR, just 80 SPD but 85 BTK and 80 TRK make him a monster. As the season went on, he was getting 20+ carries a game just with pure handoffs on trap, counter trap and belly plays. I actually went away from option as the season went on just so I could hand him the ball.

I actually think playing fullbacks at diveback was the best thing that could happen. It meant positive yards on every play, even if I was stopped, they were falling forward. More importantly, it just forced me to throw more. I threw more screens, more quicks, more shots down field off of PA. I knew I couldn't outrun teams with option so had to be more power/play action/screen.

Last year was inside zone, inside zone read and inside zone triple as almost the entirety of the offense be it one back, two back or motion option. This year, the offense was mainly split zone, trap and counter. I still ran plenty of option obviously since my QB had 190 carries and over 1600 yards but it was more power run to set up option rather than just option option option option. This season reminded me a lot more of the old Nebraska teams running zone and traps and counters and then gashing you with an assorted option play here and there than it did the option flexbone teams the offense was based on. This might be the first time I have ever had 3 1000+ yard rushers.

Not sure what I'll do next season, the QB and slotback both graduate. I have two soon to be Senior QBs that should be fine, not as athletic but not a big drop off either but HB/slotback is a problem because I have none. Christie graduates and the next best HB is 72 OVR and 84 SPD so he isn't much for a slotback. The rest are 67 OVR or lower, including a 67 OVR true freshman WR who got moved to HB specifically to play slotback. He was okay this year in limited time, but not sure who else can play there. I don't know what recruiting will give me (I have 0 XP so can't scout) but maybe someone there can step in, otherwise I'm going to need some help from training.

My initial idea was to move a WR to HB so I didn't have to worry about a WR messing up my in-formation audibles, but my top two WR also graduate and that leaves me with just 4 WR total, none of whom have ever played and none are particularly athletic.

The good news is, both fullbacks return as does a 72 OVR true freshman fullback I recruited last year who is honestly more athletic and a better blocker than the other two. Also, all 4 TEs return (3 will be Seniors) plus I have a 67 OVR TE redshirting who is going to be a great H-Back blocker some day. I lose 3 of 5 OL, but I have decent enough replacements.

The issue here is the slotback role. In Year 1, it was my most vital and most used position between carries and receptions. In Year 2, I started to phase it out a little in favor of more power running but he still rushed for over 1000 yards and was my leading receiver with nearly double the amount of receptions as the next guy. Without a legit dual threat at slotback, the offense loses a little luster. I don't necessarily need him to carry the ball, but without it a lot of what I do goes out the window.

I like the idea of playing the true freshman former WR turned HB at slotback, he will be 97 SPD next year and has good catch and carry ratings but he has no agility, acceleration or run ratings to speak of so he's straight line only. I have a really good true freshman WR who actually redshirted this season that might fill the role, but he's my top WR by far next year and would like him to stick there.

In the event I can't really fill the slotback role with someone I like, there is a chance I may either switch back to some Pistol to focus more on being power run or just run a hybrid version of my Osborne offense with Grant playing I-Back. My recruiting is garbage because I can't scout anyone, but I did sign the #8 HB. I have yet to scout him, but he's 71 OVR as of now so maybe he turns out to be serviceable. If not, I may just be hammering away with a fullback 30 times a game next year.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
@TXHusker05 Nice call sheet, particularly the formation section.

Yeah after toying around with a few different things, I think I want to stick with that version. When I try and put everything in just a list form, it turns into a wall of text and is hard to find things on the go.

It's based on this, although I'll change up the categories on the right side.

Screen Shot 2016-01-15 at 01.37.09.png

Would help if I actually finished the playbook though. My last few games in both offenses have made me wonder just how much I really need. I'm repeating plays a lot.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Adjusted the play sheet a little bit, I just filled the entire side with formations and quick audibles plus my pre-set audibles. I'm going to put situational stuff on the back. When I tried doing it like the Malzahn practice one above, I struggled to get things to fit on the right side. The formatting was weird and I was only really able to fit one or two calls per section which is useless.

Here is what it looks like so far, ignore the right column. I just copy and pasted one of the formations in each cell of that column as a place holder and all the quick audibles are just placeholders as well.

Screen Shot 2016-01-17 at 18.18.16.png

I really like how it turned out and I like having the formation title centered over both the audibles and the graphic. Easier to find than the other way I did it. The title section of each formation is actually a separate cell so if I wanted to, I could color shade it by formation grouping. I may end up doing that depending on what formations I actually end up with.

I also redid all the formation graphics, I wanted the OL in the same place so it was uniform no matter the formation. Way better than the last version which was cropped just to the end man of the formation in each side. These are all the exact same size (290x74). I'm also able to fill in the various circles with a color, number or letter if I happen to formation sub certain players in there to create unique groupings.

I'm not sure how I'm going to organize the back section, at the very least I'm going to have my specials, 2 point, & Short and home run calls as well as a list of all my screens. After that, who knows. The quick audible side is the important side.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
@TXHusker05 PowerPoint's duplicate slide feature is a godsend.

I'm planning to put my playbook in a similar format. Good stuff.

Part of my struggles have been trying to figure out how to do this on a Mac. Typically I would have used some combo of Excel and Powerpoint to create this, on a Mac I've done everything just using Pages. I drew up the formations using various shapes and just moved them around as needed to create what I wanted and then made them each individual image files so that they were formatted correctly to insert into each cell. It is probably the most ass backwards way of doing it, but once I got it ironed out it worked nicely.

The good news is that adjusting it to this new version gives me 27 total cells for formations, which should be more than enough. My offset gun stuff is only 20 formations, now I can just add in a few empty and a few under center specials and be fine. Wildcat won't go on that side since you can't quick audible in wildcat.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
The only good office Apple product is Keynote. Have you tried Office 365? That's what we use on Mac.

I looked at it but didn't spend a whole lot of time on it, once I figured out Pages would get me where I needed to be, I just stuck with it. It is probably the most time consuming, ass backwards way of doing it but it works.

Now I just need to fill in the blanks.
 

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
@JSU Zack.

Not trying to sidetrack this thread.... But didn't you try running an Erickson one back style scheme at one point?

I got some new Ideas and want to go back to my Erickson style scheme... But wanted to hear what problems you encountered. I'm actually working on a Dennis Erickson- Noel Mazzone style scheme. I like the concepts and packaging... Just not sure how much can be pulled off in game.

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nofx94

Active Member
Depending on what your FB/TE situation looks like, I'd highly recommend basing out of 21/12 personnel. Focus on Ace, Strong I, and traditional Gun (with Wildcat). You can maybe blend in some Pistol, but I think you'd find yourself not using much of it if you really want to be QB heavy in the run game. Pistol is good if you're using option, not so much otherwise. I'd look at what Kansas State is doing (nice little write-up) and go from there.

Of the top of my head, I'd look at something like:

Ace
Ace Twins
Ace Slot
Ace Y Trips

Strong I Normal
Strong I Twins
Strong I Twins Over
Strong I Twin TE

Gun Ace
Gun Ace Twins
Gun Twin TE Slot
Gun Twin TE Slot Wk
Gun Normal
Gun Normal Wk
Gun Y Trips
Gun Y Trips Wk
Gun Spread

Wildcat Slot
Wildcat Spread
Wildcat Spread Flex
Wildcat Wing

That's pretty much all 12, 21, 10 personnel. If you wanted heavier, you can add in Goal Line Heavy and if you wanted some more Jet stuff, Gun F Twins Over but that is a good starting point. Out of the Gun, you'll have QB Power, Blast and Wrap in almost every single one of those formations. Under center, you can have a decent zone run game.

If you want to run some option, replace Strong I with I Normal and maybe add in some Split Gun (Twin TE Slot Wk has a seamless audible to Split Twins if you want to motion the wing into the backfield).

Were I in a situation where I had a 92 SPD QB I wanted to feature, I'd focus on something just like that.
So I finally got around to building this playbook but I was struggling running with my backs (99 ovr #1, 91 ovr #2). I also had strong I and inline I. I do like option a lot, so i ended up putting in pistol. Initially i had just slot and wing over as option-only gadget formations, but I stripped ace because I was being ineffective with it. I took out wildcat. What I ended up with was:

I normal, tight, twins
Pistol full house, slot, strong, twin te slot, wing over, wing trips, wing te
Gun ace, ace twins, ace twins weak, twin te slot, tts weak, normal weak, normal offset, split offset, spread offset, Trey open offset, trio offset, trio 4wr offset and strong, trips offset, and y trips offset

I love offset because it allows me to run downhill from spread formations, plus I rely decently on motion option. Then with the inline gun sets I have I can take off on designed QB runs.

With pistol I have option plus the ability to run power O more effectively than it works under center.

And then I formation because of my sentimental attachment to that formation.

May take out gun twins weak and replace it with pistol ace. We'll see.

I find I've gained enough patience that I don't need to run HUNH if I don't need to, allowing me to chew clock, but at the same time I have the option because of the different formations with the same personnel groupings. And I feel like I'm doing enough different stuff to have a diverse offense but I've convinced myself that it isn't so much as to be unrealistic.

We'll see what develops next. Danke.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
So I finally got around to building this playbook but I was struggling running with my backs (99 ovr #1, 91 ovr #2). I also had strong I and inline I. I do like option a lot, so i ended up putting in pistol. Initially i had just slot and wing over as option-only gadget formations, but I stripped ace because I was being ineffective with it. I took out wildcat. What I ended up with was:

I normal, tight, twins
Pistol full house, slot, strong, twin te slot, wing over, wing trips, wing te
Gun ace, ace twins, ace twins weak, twin te slot, tts weak, normal weak, normal offset, split offset, spread offset, Trey open offset, trio offset, trio 4wr offset and strong, trips offset, and y trips offset

I love offset because it allows me to run downhill from spread formations, plus I rely decently on motion option. Then with the inline gun sets I have I can take off on designed QB runs.

With pistol I have option plus the ability to run power O more effectively than it works under center.

And then I formation because of my sentimental attachment to that formation.

May take out gun twins weak and replace it with pistol ace. We'll see.

I find I've gained enough patience that I don't need to run HUNH if I don't need to, allowing me to chew clock, but at the same time I have the option because of the different formations with the same personnel groupings. And I feel like I'm doing enough different stuff to have a diverse offense but I've convinced myself that it isn't so much as to be unrealistic.

We'll see what develops next. Danke.

Sounds like you've gone through all the dilemmas I've been through three or four different times. Offset I or traditional inline I, traditional gun or offset gun, Pistol or gun, etc. I've been through those things in my head about a million times.

In a perfect world, were I able to place my quarterback and tailback anywhere and run any concept successfully with them, I'd put my tailback in the Pistol and my quarterback's toes at five yards. Then use jump motion with the tailback or orbit motion with a slot/wing to create a pseudo Train type alignment to get a second back to an offset position. I think you need your back at depth in order to really threaten the backside A and B gaps from the gun. I also think it opens up some run and bootleg concepts that just don't exist when your quarterback and tailback are at the same depth. Things like wham and tight power and tight trap plays just time up so much better and you can get a lot more deception in your boot game. Plus, even with your back at depth (~2x2 off the QB's hip), you can still stretch the perimeter with sweeps just by adjusting footwork. Malzahn still runs Buck with his back at his normal inside zone depth alignment.

Unfortunately, while all of those things are true in the real world, this is EA World where none of that is possible and you just have to make concessions. Since I'm mostly two back (HB/HB or HB/Wing) inside zone/counter, I have very little need to run a traditional gun. I'm better off in Pistol and Offset where I can run tight inside zone and tight pistol type plays.

Like you, I eventually found myself in those 12 personnel Pistol formations because Power is actually useful from one back Pistol and you still have the ability to run read and lead option plays. After all sorts of deliberating, I decided that I could ultimately run everything I'd otherwise run under center from the Pistol and Offset Gun and decided to just keep my QB at depth. The ability to run option at any point is just too important to me.
 

nofx94

Active Member
Sounds like you've gone through all the dilemmas I've been through three or four different times. Offset I or traditional inline I, traditional gun or offset gun, Pistol or gun, etc. I've been through those things in my head about a million times.

In a perfect world, were I able to place my quarterback and tailback anywhere and run any concept successfully with them, I'd put my tailback in the Pistol and my quarterback's toes at five yards. Then use jump motion with the tailback or orbit motion with a slot/wing to create a pseudo Train type alignment to get a second back to an offset position. I think you need your back at depth in order to really threaten the backside A and B gaps from the gun. I also think it opens up some run and bootleg concepts that just don't exist when your quarterback and tailback are at the same depth. Things like wham and tight power and tight trap plays just time up so much better and you can get a lot more deception in your boot game. Plus, even with your back at depth (~2x2 off the QB's hip), you can still stretch the perimeter with sweeps just by adjusting footwork. Malzahn still runs Buck with his back at his normal inside zone depth alignment.

Unfortunately, while all of those things are true in the real world, this is EA World where none of that is possible and you just have to make concessions. Since I'm mostly two back (HB/HB or HB/Wing) inside zone/counter, I have very little need to run a traditional gun. I'm better off in Pistol and Offset where I can run tight inside zone and tight pistol type plays.

Like you, I eventually found myself in those 12 personnel Pistol formations because Power is actually useful from one back Pistol and you still have the ability to run read and lead option plays. After all sorts of deliberating, I decided that I could ultimately run everything I'd otherwise run under center from the Pistol and Offset Gun and decided to just keep my QB at depth. The ability to run option at any point is just too important to me.

I pulled some things out and rearranged some stuff. My best possible combination is two running backs, one tight end, and three receivers. My former-FB TE (90 OVR, incredible receiver for weighing 260) had 100 receiving yards playing Navy before I made the current changes. Added Split Slot and Y-Flex. Thinking of adding I-slot. I have to look at it again and see what else needs moving around. Right now my two FBs are in their mid-70s and so are my backup TEs.

Added the two-HB Pistol stuff, replacing some other things. Just going to keep it evolving over time.
 

CoachTuck

Member
Adjusted the play sheet a little bit, I just filled the entire side with formations and quick audibles plus my pre-set audibles. I'm going to put situational stuff on the back. When I tried doing it like the Malzahn practice one above, I struggled to get things to fit on the right side. The formatting was weird and I was only really able to fit one or two calls per section which is useless.

Here is what it looks like so far, ignore the right column. I just copy and pasted one of the formations in each cell of that column as a place holder and all the quick audibles are just placeholders as well.

View attachment 2311

I really like how it turned out and I like having the formation title centered over both the audibles and the graphic. Easier to find than the other way I did it. The title section of each formation is actually a separate cell so if I wanted to, I could color shade it by formation grouping. I may end up doing that depending on what formations I actually end up with.

I also redid all the formation graphics, I wanted the OL in the same place so it was uniform no matter the formation. Way better than the last version which was cropped just to the end man of the formation in each side. These are all the exact same size (290x74). I'm also able to fill in the various circles with a color, number or letter if I happen to formation sub certain players in there to create unique groupings.

I'm not sure how I'm going to organize the back section, at the very least I'm going to have my specials, 2 point, & Short and home run calls as well as a list of all my screens. After that, who knows. The quick audible side is the important side.
A whole bunch of inside zone,hb dive and quick game I imagine, in the 2 back guns sets are you sticking with the inside zone split or the hb dive


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TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
A whole bunch of inside zone,hb dive and quick game I imagine, in the 2 back guns sets are you sticking with the inside zone split or the hb dive


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When I'm in Split Offset, it is typically to run either Cross Buck or read option to one back or the other. The straight HB Dive is the quick audible in that formation so I'll use it when I get a weird look I'm not sure how to handle. The only other play I really run that often out of Split is QB Wrap. I really don't use Split Gun as much as I probably should.

My run game right now is pretty much Inside Zone, Split Zone, Counter and Trap. I'll mix in Reads and a few Powers as well as Jet and HB Toss under center but it is mainly the first 4 most of the game.
 

CoachTuck

Member
When I'm in Split Offset, it is typically to run either Cross Buck or read option to one back or the other. The straight HB Dive is the quick audible in that formation so I'll use it when I get a weird look I'm not sure how to handle. The only other play I really run that often out of Split is QB Wrap. I really don't use Split Gun as much as I probably should.

My run game right now is pretty much Inside Zone, Split Zone, Counter and Trap. I'll mix in Reads and a few Powers as well as Jet and HB Toss under center but it is mainly the first 4 most of the game.
I personally hate the zone slice from two back wing gun in some of those formations the tackle didn't go second level and it just ruins the play


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TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
I personally hate the zone slice from two back wing gun in some of those formations the tackle didn't go second level and it just ruins the play


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I don't really tend to have that problem unless you're facing a stack type alignment where the second level linebacker is too far off the line of scrimmage for the AI to recognize him. When that happens (mainly 335 Stack) what I'll do is skip my split zone game and go to more trap and counter. I really like split zone against a 34 or 425 look because the tackle tends to rotate up to the first inside linebacker playside really well and I cut back against the grain on it. There's typically a really nice little lane that develops in the B gap and if you have a slot receiver who can block, he'll typically go get the free safety and make it a really nice run.

The one thing I mainly struggle with is that 30 Stack look because the AI OL just doesn't identify those linebackers and rotate up which leads to a lot of run through. Trap helps, but it isn't something you can just use 20 times a game. What I'm thinking about doing is adding a small 21 personnel under center package using Ace F Pair Twins, Strong I Normal, Twins, Y Trips and Twin TE plus Gun Slot F Wing and try and do a little mini-Wing T series. Use FB Dive as "belly", toss sweep as a pseudo-buck sweep and then a waggle pass off of FB Dive. That should give me enough of an interior power run threat against that 30 stack look to help me out.
 

nofx94

Active Member
I think next season my pro/option power-spread is going to convert to a spread-I air raid, if I can create such a thing
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
I think next season my pro/option power-spread is going to convert to a spread-I air raid, if I can create such a thing

You can definitely do it. My core pass concepts are exactly the same as any air raid team might have. I run mesh and shallow cross and drive and Y cross and smash and verts. All the core concepts.

Most offset wing gun formations have at least one or two of those concepts, some have more or can be easily created with hot routes (you can create mesh and shallow cross easily with hot routes). I've been fairly pass heavy in the past using my normal Spread-I playbook, I typically say in 2x1 Split Offset, 2x2 Spread Flex and 3x1 4WR Trio Str but you can use a wing TE in there as well.

Don't sleep on Pistol for an air raid offense as well. Weak Slot especially gives you the same "Spread-I" look but has some killer air raid concepts including HB auto-motion. Plus every single one back Pistol formation has every possible air raid concept you could want from mesh to shallow to drive to smash to verts and everything in between like Y Sail/Corner etc.

It depends how much and what kind of running you want to do. If you just want to be inside zone/inside zone read, I'd probably stick with offset gun because of how hard that zone play hits. Treat it like a Noel Mazzone N-Zone spread (some good info in the references thread stickied to the top of the main page) and I actually have a Mazzone playbook somewhere around here if it isn't in that thread. If you want your run game to be more dive and draw, Pistol is great. The draw plays out of pistol are fantastic.
 

JSU Zack

How do I IT?
I think next season my pro/option power-spread is going to convert to a spread-I air raid, if I can create such a thing

That's what I'm doing now. Here's a list of formations I suggest.

BYU base playbook
I Form:
  • Normal
  • Twins Flex
  • Close Twins
  • Slot Flex
  • Tight
Pistol:
  • Weak H Flex
  • Weak Slot
  • Strong Slot
  • Wing Trio
  • Spread Flex
  • Trips Open
Gun:
  • Split Offset
  • Spread Flex
  • Spread Offset
  • 4 WR Trio
  • 4 WR Trio Strong
  • Trips Offset
  • 5 WR Trio
  • 5 WR Trips
Add whatever runs you want along with the pass concepts you want. When Mumme was at BYU and Kentucky, he used mostly Y Corner, Y Stick, and Y Cross. Leach prefers Mesh and the Shallow series. The reference thread has some playbooks to give you some ideas.
 

nofx94

Active Member
What does anyone think of the inline gun sets? I really want to mess with trips and trips wk and maybe trips open. And then try the tight end inline or right at wing besides h-back. Cluster and so forth. I want to get my passing game a little away from just play action, I guess. Thoughts?

I do appreciate weak h flex and weak slot. Pistol is so versatile.

And I'm thinking of trying empty spread and empty wing besides/instead of 5 wr. Or is that too limiting?
 
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