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Spread Offense

nofx94

Active Member
I'm pretty sure it's not in offset, but I think trips HB wk and spread HB wk have read plays with tackles and guards pulling, if you're willing to operate a bit out of flat gun
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
I'm pretty sure it's not in offset, but I think trips HB wk and spread HB wk have read plays with tackles and guards pulling, if you're willing to operate a bit out of flat gun

Yeah there are both G and T Trap plays with reads in quite a few traditional gun formations and a couple with a GT Counter tied to a read. I believe Split Slot has a GT Counter Triple Option.

They aren't the smoothest plays and the blocks sometimes create a log jam rather than a hole but if you want to be more read based, they can be great. I like the simplicity of just being all inside zone based, gives the offense a bit more of a front side veer look rather than just being all backside reads.

If you have high acceleration OL though, I'd definitely look into some of the traditional gun G-T Trap/Counter stuff. The audible motion stuff @CoachTuck has talked about does work in traditional gun as well.
 

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
I wish I could manage a 2x2 and 3x1 only spread offense, with some special formations for certain situations. I like formations too much to do it though. That would work though, you don't need to do a whole lot and if the audible/motion from 2x2 to 3x1 is seamless, it would be a great way to do it. Defense would have to declare its coverage with the audible. Great way to counter 425/335 as well.

Maybe some day I'll do that, I don't have the passing ability to spend an entire game in 10 personnel.
It works well if you're looking to do it! I do it from 11 personnel myself. My biggest issue... I get too cocky and start doing too much giving away tendencies.

I was actually working on this last night b4 bed. I'm going to go back to my manual motion trips/trey scheme. I added trips and trey to my play book.... But it didn't give me what I wanted. I get more of what I want using SG normal & normal hb wk and using motion to create trips and trey looks.

I got so much going on in my scheme... That in game I literally forget 3/4 of it. I gotta simplify my scheme.... Go back to the kiss (keep it simple stupid) method.



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Last edited:

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Do y'all think power o from pistol works better than power o from I?

I personally love Power O from one back Pistol, I wish it was in more than just a handful of formations. It works significantly better than Power O from the I (or any two back Power O for that matter). There are just only a couple one back Power plays in Pistol which is the issue.

Two back Power is pointless in the game. It isn't blocked correctly at all and it ends up just being a clusterfuck play side. For whatever reason the playside tackle kicks the end out instead of getting to the second level so the FB/H can block him, that leaves the FB and BSG essentially plugging the hole playside rather than blocking anything. If you motion the FB out of the backfield to serve as sort of a wing player, it helps, but not much that introduces some bad formation tendencies.

If you run enough Pistol to where it wouldn't be a tendency, Power is great there. If you are only going Pistol to run Power, don't bother.
 

nofx94

Active Member
I'm not. I'm just working on some playbooks incorporating ace, pistol, and gun and was wondering if I should attempt power or just stick zone
 

bruin228

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Power from whatever the formation is that's 11 personnel and has the TE in a wing position is pretty solid.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Power from whatever the formation is that's 11 personnel and has the TE in a wing position is pretty solid.

Slot Flex Wing and Wing Trips. It is great in Pistol Wing Offset/Trio as well, but that is 20 personnel which may make it awkward. I like the Wing Offset/Trio version because the quick run audible in that formation is usually that quick hitting inside zone blast type of play.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
@bruin228, in our game, were you running mesh paired with a wheel out of the backfield? Is there a play designed for that in the playbook or did you have to create it?

I'm trying to think of ways to have a bit more competent of a pass game and was thinking about some ways to get the ball on the perimeters without having to go to screens. I know I've seen Chip Kelly run that as shown below and I'm sure it is an air raid staple, just not sure if it is best to create it or if one exists.

Screen Shot 2015-12-09 at 19.09.36.png

I was thinking I could create it out of Normal Offset or Trio Offset or even Spread Flex, using motions. The only route that doesn't get fucked up when you snap the ball while a player is manually motioning is a shallow route, so I could create the motion/compressed set without actually needing the auto-motion or a tight formation. Something like:

---X----------------T-G-C-G-T-Y------------------------
------------A------------------------------------Z-------
--------------------------Q-------------------------------
----------------------------F-----------------------------

Normal Offset already has a Shallow cross play where A runs a shallow, Y runs the dig, Z runs a post. What I could do is just hot route Z to a shallow, F to a wheel and motion the Z and snap it once he's a few steps outside of the TE. Obviously I'd need to run this with the ball on the boundary to the back's side.

Could do the same with Trio Offset, except with the TE and inner most slot running Mesh with the dig run by the middle slot and an alert fade with the outside WR.

With Spread Flex, I'd just go with something like this:

---X----------------T-G-C-G-T---------Y----------------
------------A------------------------------------Z-------
--------------------------Q-------------------------------
----------------------------F-----------------------------

I could use Deep Attack as the base, hot route A and Z to run mesh, Y can stay with his post and X stays with his alert fade. Do the same motion as before, snapping the ball as Z gets just on top of Y or slightly inside. F sticks with the wheel. Again, probably run with the ball on the hash towards the back's alignment.

Anything else you'd recommend to compliment this? I was thinking maybe a three man vertical route with Z and F running mesh/wheel. Theoretically that would give me four verts, the three WRs plus the back out of the backfield but with a nice little check down shallow.
 

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
I don't understand why trio and trio hb wk has alignment issues! The TE moves to a receiver spot instead of his position.

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LEGEND

Well-Known Member
I've never been a 4 or 5 wr's type of player. But I'm thinking of adding a few formations to make my offense more multiple. Anyone have suggestions on some I can add?

Until this point my offense has been all 11 and 12 personnel. I'm looking to get out my comfort zone and try some new stuff!

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JSU Zack

How do I IT?
I've never been a 4 or 5 wr's type of player. But I'm thinking of adding a few formations to make my offense more multiple. Anyone have suggestions on some I can add?

Until this point my offense has been all 11 and 12 personnel. I'm looking to get out my comfort zone and try some new stuff!

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

SG Double Flex, SG Tight Slots, SG Flanker Close, SG Trey 4 WR, SG Trips, SG Trio Open, and Ace Spread.
 

nofx94

Active Member
Cluster and bunch both have some cool things going on. Anything offset has a bit of a downhill running game, plus some option. Spread flex has always been my go-to 4wr since the PS2 days. Spread HB wk and 4 wr have some interesting things going on passing wise. Same with trips and all its permutations.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Were I to run an offense out of just one single formation in the game, it would be Shotgun Spread Flex. Hard hitting inside zone play, you have a nice variety of reads and options if you want them and every core air raid concept.

Of course, I can't run an offense out of just one single formation because I love formations and use dozens a game. Even in the relatively simple balanced spread gun offense I'm starting to put together I'm probably going to end up with a bunch of formations just so I can use different formation subs to get different players in different spots and then go up tempo with it.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Decided to just re-purpose my Spread-I No Huddle playbook for the new creation. It already has all the formation groupings I know I would want and then I can just add/subtract from there. It is pretty much 10/11 personnel super hurry-up, no-huddle spread.

In my first test game, I ran 78 plays for 718 yards. I threw 47 of 58 for 553 and 4 TD and ran 20 times for 165 yards and 4 TD. That obviously wouldn't happen vs users and I wouldn't pass that much, but mainly I was trying to practice route combinations and things I could create on the fly with hot routes, motions and audibles.

I really enjoyed audibling from Spread Flex to Trio 4WR Str and from Normal Offset to Trio Offset. If you audible from Normal Offset to Trio Offset, the TE doesn't shift over and leave a WR at TE. I was able to shift him to throw bubble or also check to runs and things like that. Same concept as Spread Flex to Trio 4WR Str.

What I did not run much of is my wing formations. I put all of them in the playbook and used them maybe 7-8 times, mostly for screens and one short yardage counter play. I do want to keep them, but I may have to scale them back. Right now I have 8 wing offset formations in the playbook, that probably is not necessary. I may keep the ones with my screens in them and go from there.

I also kept some under center formations in there, Pistol Full House and one Wildcat formation. They are there as placeholders, but I would like the ability to hop under center for short yardage. There were a few situations where I really wished I could have gotten to one of the under center formations via no huddle-up tempo to rush and just convert a short 3rd down. I may add back Ace Slot Flex to have Trap/PA TE Screen. It is 11 personnel and I could get to it easily. Shame there isn't a 10 personnel under center formation with a QB sneak or something.

The playbook is massive at the moment which I need to fix but it was fun for a first trial run.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
For those of you running a legit HUNH type of offense (@bruin228 and others), how do you package your plays/formations to maximize efficiency and tempo? I put this HUNH playbook together but it is huge, I'd really like to slim this down to be more efficient for up-tempo, but I still want to have answers for the variety of stuff I see weekly.

I was thinking about doing something involving personnel packages. Have a handful of 10, 11, 12 and 20 personnel packages and then run them for 4-5 play bursts. Just not sure I would end up with enough answers for some of the looks I get on defense each week. I attack 335 much differently than I attack any other defense and without knowing who is going to be in a 335 going in, it is tough to have all the answers.

I wish I could just go Split Offset, Spread Flex, 4WR Trio/Str and call it a day but I think it would get really difficult to win games that way.
 

guardman23

Well-Known Member
For those of you running a legit HUNH type of offense (@bruin228 and others), how do you package your plays/formations to maximize efficiency and tempo? I put this HUNH playbook together but it is huge, I'd really like to slim this down to be more efficient for up-tempo, but I still want to have answers for the variety of stuff I see weekly.

I was thinking about doing something involving personnel packages. Have a handful of 10, 11, 12 and 20 personnel packages and then run them for 4-5 play bursts. Just not sure I would end up with enough answers for some of the looks I get on defense each week. I attack 335 much differently than I attack any other defense and without knowing who is going to be in a 335 going in, it is tough to have all the answers.

I wish I could just go Split Offset, Spread Flex, 4WR Trio/Str and call it a day but I think it would get really difficult to win games that way.
Run with one formation all drive aka NASCAR for balanced or Talladega for trips.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Run with one formation all drive aka NASCAR for balanced or Talladega for trips.

After the clusterfuck of a game I just had in BSCFL, I may consider it. Laggy as hell and went down 24-0 at half and then lost my starting quarterback to injury so my option game was MIA. I basically spent the entire second half running HUNH out of 2x2 and 3x1 and think I ended up throwing for over 350 yards in that half and that's with 2 TE and a HB playing WR for me.

I have really good TEs at Clemson as well, I'm thinking of using maybe 3 different 2x2 formations and 3 different 3x1 formations, each with different personnel subbed on the field. One might have the 2 TEs out there and then I can go hurry with them on the field, then huddle up and get 4 WR on the field and do the same thing.

@bruin228 noticed that Year 1 ODs with edited base rosters seem to have a whole lot more injuries than a typical OD. He has already lost a few guys, I think someone else lost their entire starting backfield, I lost my starting HB for half the year and have lost multiple players for a game at a time. I'm thinking I might treat different formations within the same grouping as hockey line changes, just put a whole new set of personnel on the field, go tempo for 4-5 plays and then switch another set out there, etc.
 

JSU Zack

How do I IT?
For those of you running a legit HUNH type of offense (@bruin228 and others), how do you package your plays/formations to maximize efficiency and tempo? I put this HUNH playbook together but it is huge, I'd really like to slim this down to be more efficient for up-tempo, but I still want to have answers for the variety of stuff I see weekly.

I was thinking about doing something involving personnel packages. Have a handful of 10, 11, 12 and 20 personnel packages and then run them for 4-5 play bursts. Just not sure I would end up with enough answers for some of the looks I get on defense each week. I attack 335 much differently than I attack any other defense and without knowing who is going to be in a 335 going in, it is tough to have all the answers.

I wish I could just go Split Offset, Spread Flex, 4WR Trio/Str and call it a day but I think it would get really difficult to win games that way.

Hint: You can change your audibles during a game under the strategy section. It's not permanent either. It's just for that game.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Hint: You can change your audibles during a game under the strategy section. It's not permanent either. It's just for that game.

Audibles really aren't the problem, it is just the size of the playbook. A lot of the formations in my playbook I barely use and are in there specifically to combat 335 defenses. It is just way too easy for people to manipulate the game's programming with the 335, especially when you're IZ/IZR/Counter based. Double teams rotate incorrectly, if they rotate at all and it leads to a lot of run through. Helps to have certain formations that give you help backside and force people to move their SS or overshift one way or the other. This is part of the reason I went to Pistol, so I could just easily run backside regardless of formation but I've more or less ditched Pistol.

If I knew going in that I was facing a 335, I could have one playbook optimized for that and another far more streamlined for facing normal defenses. It isn't a problem when I stick with 10 personnel because I only have 4 or 5 10 personnel formations, but in 11 personnel I have 12 formations to score through and they are in alphabetical order which is tiring.

I really don't use preset audibles that much. My presets are mainly used to get me from formation to formation, not about getting to a specific play. In my triple option offense, I use audibles to get a second back into the backfield or move an H-Back in or out of the formation. In my tempo offenses, it is about getting in and out of formations I couldn't otherwise get to via no huddle (Normal to Spread Flex for example). The play call itself really doesn't matter, I can get to just about everything via my in-formation audibles.

If I stick with 20/10 personnel this wouldn't be an issue, it is the 11 personnel stuff that just jacks the size of playbooks up.
 

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
Are there any formations you can run with Trips TE offset where the TE lines up where he is supposed to?

I like the formations but it seems any formation with TE last guy on LOS you can't use in no huddle... Because you get alignment issues.

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bruin228

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
They don't for me.

I can't check right now, but from what I remember, it was fine whenever I switched from something like Trio HB Wk to Trips TE Offset. I know for sure it works if you're just moving the back around, like Trio to Trio HB Wk.

The alignment issue also only last through one formation shift. So if I line up in Trips TE, complete a pass, no huddle into Normal HB Wk, the TE will be in a WR position. But if I run my play out of Normal HB Wk and then hurry up into Wing Trips Wk or whatever, he should line up in the right spot again. So you can combat the alignment bullshit by just no huddling from closed trips sets to sets where the TE is split out and it doesn't matter that he and the WR switch. Like going from Trio to Trey Open Offset or Normal Y-Slot. And then go back to something where he's on the line and it won't matter.
 

nofx94

Active Member
Do y'all prefer offset or flat sets? I feel like offset is pretty obviously better for downhill running but flat sets have better/more varied passing play options.

Also, does everyone here rely on tight-ends? I'm working on a multiple book right now because I've been recruiting tight ends trying to become more powerful and I've just found that I'm really more of a spread person that's into UC stuff out of some weird aesthetic sentimentality/wanting to be different now that majority programs are spread out. And I like pistol but sometimes it feels like half-stepping, especially because of the occasional inefficiency using lower end-speed backs on straight-ahead runs because the give animation operates like an option play.

In the book I'm developing (ace-i-gun-str-wk; couldn't fit pistol) I'm trying to limit my shotgun stuff to mainly 11/12 personnel just because I've been recruiting the position so heavily.
 

bruin228

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
I use TEs maybe 2 plays a game when I'm running air raid, which is my ideal offense. And then that's only inside the 10. You don't have to have them.
 

JSU Zack

How do I IT?
Do y'all prefer offset or flat sets? I feel like offset is pretty obviously better for downhill running but flat sets have better/more varied passing play options.

Also, does everyone here rely on tight-ends? I'm working on a multiple book right now because I've been recruiting tight ends trying to become more powerful and I've just found that I'm really more of a spread person that's into UC stuff out of some weird aesthetic sentimentality/wanting to be different now that majority programs are spread out. And I like pistol but sometimes it feels like half-stepping, especially because of the occasional inefficiency using lower end-speed backs on straight-ahead runs because the give animation operates like an option play.

In the book I'm developing (ace-i-gun-str-wk; couldn't fit pistol) I'm trying to limit my shotgun stuff to mainly 11/12 personnel just because I've been recruiting the position so heavily.

I find it difficult to recruit good tight ends. The game only generates a few four stars and one blue-chip TE if you're lucky. That being said, even three stars can hit the upper 80's.

A year or two ago, I created a "Pistol Wing T" book that based out of 11 personnel. Not a bad book.

If I could ever get enough tight ends, I would move to my offense of choice - the one back - and chop wood like McElwain et. al.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Are there any formations you can run with Trips TE offset where the TE lines up where he is supposed to?

I like the formations but it seems any formation with TE last guy on LOS you can't use in no huddle... Because you get alignment issues.

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Like @bruin228 said, if you go closed trips to closed trips, it will be correct. The TE will stay at TE. I tend to go tempo and pair Trio Offset and Trio Unbalanced together for up-tempo. If you're trying to go from closed trips to another type of formation, say Trio Offset to Normal Offset, you're going to end up with the TE out of position... UNLESS... you audible to that formation rather than use tempo.

In my new No Huddle offense, I actually made Normal Offset and Trio Offset audibles (Counter and Bubble respectively). That way when I'm at the line of scrimmage or going up-tempo, I can audible to and from each formation and the TE will stay where he is and only the Z WR will move. If you do it that way, then you can take advantage of what @bruin228 mentioned where the alignment issues really only last one play and you're back ready to go.

The one exception to all of this is Pistol. Pistol does not have the same no huddle alignment issues that Shotgun has. If you call a play in Pistol Trips and then go hurry up to Pistol Slot or Y Trips, it will line up correctly every time. Even if you go Pistol Trips to Pistol Slot Flex Wing, the TE will stay at the wing position. That was actually one of the reasons I had started going Pistol, all the alignment issues were gone and I could get to any formation from any formation and not worry about having a WR at TE or vice versa.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Do y'all prefer offset or flat sets? I feel like offset is pretty obviously better for downhill running but flat sets have better/more varied passing play options.

Also, does everyone here rely on tight-ends? I'm working on a multiple book right now because I've been recruiting tight ends trying to become more powerful and I've just found that I'm really more of a spread person that's into UC stuff out of some weird aesthetic sentimentality/wanting to be different now that majority programs are spread out. And I like pistol but sometimes it feels like half-stepping, especially because of the occasional inefficiency using lower end-speed backs on straight-ahead runs because the give animation operates like an option play.

In the book I'm developing (ace-i-gun-str-wk; couldn't fit pistol) I'm trying to limit my shotgun stuff to mainly 11/12 personnel just because I've been recruiting the position so heavily.

I use TEs maybe 2 plays a game when I'm running air raid, which is my ideal offense. And then that's only inside the 10. You don't have to have them.

I know they're not necessary, I just kind of want to impose their bulk on the universe.

I find it difficult to recruit good tight ends. The game only generates a few four stars and one blue-chip TE if you're lucky. That being said, even three stars can hit the upper 80's.

A year or two ago, I created a "Pistol Wing T" book that based out of 11 personnel. Not a bad book.

If I could ever get enough tight ends, I would move to my offense of choice - the one back - and chop wood like McElwain et. al.

I prefer Offset always. I've tried the traditional flat inline Gun stuff and always hated it. Like you I really wanted some of the advanced pass concepts available in those formations as well as the gap scheme read plays like Counter and Trap but the benefits of the pass game don't offset the shitty run game. Everything just develops too slowly for me. The one and only exception I've ever made to traditional gun is when I had a 95+ SPD QB and basically ran QB Blast/QB Power/QB Wrap/Read 30 times a game.

I even tried mixing Offset and Traditional Gun stuff but just couldn't get into it. It felt counter productive to me. Other users would easily see when I was in one or the other and I'd end up in bad formation tendencies. I'd be going Offset to run inside zone and traditional to throw or run my QB. In real life when it is hard for LBs at field level to see minor differences in the tailback's depth, it is fine. In the game where both sides view from behind the offensive backfield, it is just too obvious.

In reality, there isn't much you can do in traditional gun that you can't do in some combination of under center, pistol or offset gun. The lone exception really being the QB run game but it has been a long time since I had a legit burner or powerful Tebow type at QB that would compel me to run my QB 30 times a game like I did in the CUSA OD with New Mexico a while back. When I was running my QB 25-30 times a game with a 95+ SPD QB, yeah, I'd park in 12 personnel traditional gun formations and run Blast/Power/Wrap all damn day. But now I just move those ATH to tailback and put more pass first QBs at QB. You lose some of the more advanced pass concepts, but to me that doesn't matter at all as my pass game is basically your core 5 air raid concepts that are in every formation in the game plus screens (which I LOVE in Offset) and some quick alert hot routes to take advantage of certain looks.

Someone like @bruin228 probably couldn't get away with being 100% Offset Gun because he uses some of the more advanced air raid concepts that don't otherwise exist in all formations. Even then, he spends plenty of time in 10 personnel offset.

I too love tight ends and they are a huge piece of my offense, but @JSU Zack is right, recruiting TEs is a bitch. A big reason I picked Clemson in the new version of Powerhouse was because it already had 5 TEs on the roster, 4 of them being very good pass catchers and 4 of the 5 are young. It lets me be flexible with TEs without having to recruit them right away. I'm hoping being able to use TEs more early on will then get more TEs interested in me for recruiting as the OD goes on. Whether that ends up happening or not, I have no idea. Seems like as ODs go on I start getting more and more spread out, focusing on 20 and 10 personnel and less on 12/11, just because recruiting legitimately talented TEs is a nightmare. They either are great pass catchers and can't block a sled or they're 100% run blockers with 70 SPD who couldn't catch a beach ball.

I'm in the process of finding a way to get my TEs on the field in this HUNH spread without losing the "spread" aspect. I'm probably going to do what I do in BSCFL and formation sub TEs into WR spots here and there to isolate them on little CBs and get my more athletic WRs in the slots. I'm hoping that will assist me in exploiting the people who sit in 335 Stack all god damn game. If they don't have a pass coverage SS in those SS spots, I'll burn them.
 

JSU Zack

How do I IT?
Case in point:
I would have ran 11/12 personnel one back this season at GT if they had tight ends. They have ZERO on the roster.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Speaking of the offset gun screen game, everyone knows I spend a shit ton of time finding ways to tweak screens to be even more devastating. Getting double and triple screens going every direction. I recently discovered you can call slip screens, hot route either a HB or Wing TE to an in/out route whichever direction the screen is going and you can more or less end up with a middle slip screen. As long as you don't press up on the stick to lead him down the field (illegal in our ODs), the pass is completed right at or behind the line of scrimmage so it is legal within our rules.

It is more or less a mash up of a WR Middle Screen, a HB Slip Screen and a crack screen, which is something Lane Kiffin loves using. I'll motion the WR to the side of the field I'm running the screen and snap it right as he gets 1-2 strides away from the tackle. He's already got a drag route most of the time and he does a good job of picking off either a LB or the DE while the screen sets up. Malzahn has a crack swing screen he uses (below) but I find it works better as a slip screen in game because I need that WRs block on the perimeter when I run swing.

ScreenMoney4_zpsb7b5e786.png


In a perfect world I'd actually pair this screen with a Drive concept but obviously we don't allow that in our ODs, and for good reason since some people love abusing it *sideeye emoji*.

So my new Crack Slip Screen included, I think I must have 7 or 8 different screens from Offset Gun alone.

- Bubble
- Now/SE
- Triple Screen using WR Mid Screen (Mid and Swing screen one way, now screen backside)
- HB Swing screen using some version of Motion PA Swing as the base
- HB Crack Slip Screen using HB Slip Screen
- TE Crack Slip Screen using HB Slip Screen
- TE Screen off of PA (as designed in Ace Slot Flex)

I also had a TE swing screen using slip screen at one time but I'm going to ditch it in favor of this new screen.

One thing I really want to see if I can do is create a cross screen. Nebraska ran a version of it a few times this year where there you pumped a screen one way and then turned back to throw a slow screen the other way. A lot of teams run some form of pump screen, Malzahn has Iowa and Ohio (below) which are both pump double screens but both involve a WR one way and HB the other. What I'd like to do is have a cross screen where one HB goes one way and one HB (or an H-Back) goes the other. It is already in the game as the Mtn FB Cross Screen, but when the guy receiving the screen lines up way in front of the other back, what you're running is obvious to any other user. I'd like to create one a little less obvious than that.

ScreenIowa_zpsa737ab9b.png
ScreenOhio_zps3a63a301.png
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Case in point:
I would have ran 11/12 personnel one back this season at GT if they had tight ends. They have ZERO on the roster.

Thus why I went Clemson instead of GT to run my Spread I Triple. The lack of TEs would have caused me all sorts of issues, even if I moved the FBs around and had WRs with some run block ratings.

I love having TEs, even though I don't always use them as much as I should.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
I miss NCAA 12 or 13 where you could run HUNH between any formations, regardless of personnel. I get why they removed it because obviously scrubs online were doing like 5WR to Maryland I and back, but for the rest of us that do run legitimate offenses and can house rule any sort of shenanigans like that, it made for a really easy to put together HUNH offense. I remember making a habit of going Pistol Full House (with 3 HB) to Spread Flex via hurry up and really taking advantage of people who went Bear front on me.

Now if I wanted to do that, I have to blow an audible on it. I don't mind using audibles to get in and out of formations, that's really the whole reason I have preset audibles, but with only 5 audibles available you really have to be strict. It's too bad each audible button doesn't open as sub-list with 5 more audibles available for a total of 25.

I'm thinking what I'll do is have 4 packages with 5-6 formations a piece. 20, 10, 11, 12.

Split Offset
Slot Offset
Wing Offset
Pistol Weak Slot

Flanker Close
Spread Flex
Spread Offset
Trio 4WR
Trio 4WR Str
Trips Offset

(the 10 personnel formations would each have different combos of WR/TE on the field in different spots so that I could call one, go up-tempo with say 12 personnel on the field for 4-5 plays... huddle and then put legit 10 personnel out there).

Normal Offset
Normal Offset Wk
Y Trips Offset
Trio Offset
Trio Unbalanced
Trey Offset

Pistol Twin TE
Pistol Twin TE Slot
Pistol Wing Over
Wildcat Wing

I may plug a couple random formations in here and there as well, Full House comes to mind as one that doesn't really fit in with anything but I'd really like to have it. Not sure if I'll follow through on this, but I think it would help things out a little bit in terms of going HUNH.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
All of @bruin228's Mesh stuff has me thinking about creating a mesh screen via Slip Screen. Takes the same motion as my HB Crack Screen I mentioned before, but now turns it into a WR Mid Screen, just in formations that don't otherwise have a mid screen available (all offset formations with a TE, wing or on line).


Would pair it with manual motion with either the decoy WR or the intended WR and throw. It is a slip screen but the pass is completed right at or behind the line of scrimmage so it is still legal within our rules. If I got pressure or press man I'd throw the HB wheel out of the backfield as an alert.

Works alright if you get the timing right and the blocks to match up. Occasionally the underneath WR will get lost in traffic and it'll just go incomplete. I like it a little bit better than using the in/out to the HB to adjust slip screen just because there is a little less congestion and there is also some built in misdirection since most users won't be thinking "mid screen" in these formations. It works in just about every offset wing formation and even the offset with a TE on the line formations.

Can't imagine anyone would call it out for cheese or against the rules since the throw is right at the LOS. And that's without even aiming it, if I had to I could aim low and have him come back behind the LOS like I do on the in/out slip screen.

The best version of the in/out slip screen I have found so far is actually in various Split Offset formations, using either Mtn Cross Screen or the base Slip Screen.

In Split Offset, using Slip Screen:


All I'm doing is keying the flat defender, which in this case becomes the MLB. He widens, I throw the "out" middle screen to the second back. Had he stayed home or I got a CB blitz or something where the flat defender is MIA, I just throw the wheel out there looking to cut back behind the blocks.

Same thing with the Mtn Cross Screen from Split Y Offset:


In this case, I'm keying the flat defender to the orbit motion side. If he stays home, I go back side to the "out" middle screen. If there is a blitz, no flat defender or a user is in man to man and forgets to cover the HB manually, I'll just lob the orbit swing screen out there. Hopefully getting it to him before he stops so he catches it on the move.

I've come up with a few other variations of screens but these have been my three favorite so far, in addition to my standard bubble, now and triple screens.

What I really want is some TE screens. I've played around with a few different options but haven't liked them. The "best" one so far is using PA WR Screen in either Normal Offset or Y Trips Offset and hot routing the TE to a flat. It isn't perfect, but it usually gets a few yards. I like the one in Normal Offset the most because you still get a SE/Now screen to the twin WR side and then you get a TE flat screen to the other which is solid vs press. The only other idea is just to put a TE at one of the HB or WR spots to run any of the screens above. It isn't a legit TE screen but it at least gets my TE the ball. Not sure how else to make it work.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Man, I'm having a ton of success going HUNH. I'm going as fast as possible, only huddling when rules require it or when situation dictates a different set of personnel. Otherwise, I'll put one set of personnel on the field and go fast. Won't always call a play right away, sometimes I'll just line up and stand there a bit but typically I'm going fast. I need to slim down the playbook still but so far so good. My audibles are put together in a way that I can get to pretty much any type of formation 2x2, 3x1, 3x1 closed, 2x1 Wing, 2x1 Split regardless of what my base personnel package is.

My screen game is even better going HUNH because users just can't keep up with the misdirection and motion. I have guys going every direction and it is hard enough for users to keep up with it. I'm throwing a lot more as well. A lot easier to throw when you know you're getting really generic looks because users have to call their play fast.

The one thing I need to get in a habit of is varying when I snap. I've taken a few negative plays snapping the ball right as a defense is adjusting and I walk right into a tackle.

Going to start to really trim things down though, even though I'm running between 60 and 80 plays consistently, I doubt I'm running more than 25 individual plays.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
I decided that I'm going to focus on mesh/shallow/drive and snag/scat/spot and my primary pass concepts and have everything work off of that. Mix in some flood, smash and verts here and there but mainly focus on easy short reads and the screen game. If I didn't love how well my H-Back TE blocked, I'd probably stay in 20/10 personnel all game long but I really want to mix in some 11 Wing stuff to run split zone and Counter Y.

I've been going back over some Mazzone stuff and noticed the Basic adjustment to his standard three man spot/snag. Since users in our ODs are very aggressive trying to take away corner routes, adjusting the corner to be a 10 yard dig might be a nice way to take advantage of that. That and hot routing him to run a vertical seam vs C2 looks. Instead of a swing I think I would have the HB run a wheel which is what @bruin228 does and he seems to have a lot of success on it.

I'm just not sure what to do with the backside WR(s). There aren't any mirrored snag/spot concepts in the game so I need the backside receivers to do something. Most of the time they are running a dig or slant on programmed Z Spot plays but I don't want them creating traffic in the middle with the Basic adjustment. Maybe just an alert fade or even a pivot or hitch. If it is twin WR, maybe just do curl/flat or hitch/seam backside. Anything that helps clears the safety to that side.

screen-shot-2015-05-14-at-4-00-21-pm.png


May be a little bit before I really get a slimmed down streamlined playbook in place but so far so good.
 

PSUEagle

Well-Known Member
Not sure if you're referring to the BrophyFootball videos from a few years ago when you're talking about Mazzone's Snag package, but one thing you may have noticed that he likes doing on the backside (especially the 3 Man version) is running an Option/Dig (#1 Dig #2 Option) combo. Don't know if he picked it up from his NYJ experience or if he did it before at Ole Miss/Auburn, but I'm almost certain he instructs his QB to work that combination if the defense is either in a Cover 2 look or is rolling strongside period (Cover 3 Cloud to the field/Cover 3 "Slide" where both hook zone players push to the field). In either case you get a two on one with the Dig and Option both attacking the defender that's inside of #2.

In the game a lot of the default Snag plays have a similar setup with #2 running the Pivot route. Since you likely see very little man coverage unless it's an all out blitz, I'd change his route to a Hitch: you get a better stretch on the linebacker/DB you're trying to put in conflict. And if you're running Snag from 3X1, it's really easy: assuming the HB is offset to the weakside put him on an Option route. Note that this combination is also great on the backside of other plays as well like Flood and Smash.

I've been doing some form of this for years in this series: it's a great way to make users account for the backside in the passing game and further open up the field. And note that you could also run traditional Levels (#1 5 YD In #2 10-12 YD In) and get a similar stretch, although I'm not sure how many plays have #2 running that route by default.
 

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
I've been having a lot of success with underrated TE's! Some of my best TE's have all been 67 Ovr sleepers. I had a 6'7" 280 beast that started off 67 Ovr also.

He was unrecoverable as a true freshman... By his Sr season I wished I'd moved him to Wr. I have a RS Freshman now... He was 67 Ovr when he came in. I redshirted him and now he's starting this season. He has 94 acceleration with 83 speed. He's killing defenders! That acceleration is just crazy! He get up to and past LB's b4 they can begin their drop. Same with safeties... They're back peddling and he accelerating right past them.

This has been really helpful because my fastest Wr is 88 spd. I have good wr's but no burners.. Think Jarvis Landry of the Dolphins.

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Not sure if you're referring to the BrophyFootball videos from a few years ago when you're talking about Mazzone's Snag package, but one thing you may have noticed that he likes doing on the backside (especially the 3 Man version) is running an Option/Dig (#1 Dig #2 Option) combo. Don't know if he picked it up from his NYJ experience or if he did it before at Ole Miss/Auburn, but I'm almost certain he instructs his QB to work that combination if the defense is either in a Cover 2 look or is rolling strongside period (Cover 3 Cloud to the field/Cover 3 "Slide" where both hook zone players push to the field). In either case you get a two on one with the Dig and Option both attacking the defender that's inside of #2.

In the game a lot of the default Snag plays have a similar setup with #2 running the Pivot route. Since you likely see very little man coverage unless it's an all out blitz, I'd change his route to a Hitch: you get a better stretch on the linebacker/DB you're trying to put in conflict. And if you're running Snag from 3X1, it's really easy: assuming the HB is offset to the weakside put him on an Option route. Note that this combination is also great on the backside of other plays as well like Flood and Smash.

I've been doing some form of this for years in this series: it's a great way to make users account for the backside in the passing game and further open up the field. And note that you could also run traditional Levels (#1 5 YD In #2 10-12 YD In) and get a similar stretch, although I'm not sure how many plays have #2 running that route by default.

Hot routing the backside #2 to a hitch is something I've done in the past but got away from it, I may need to go back to it. I really wish one of the hot route options for slot WRs was the hitch/in/out option route that he runs on Spread Flex Y Cross. I like the idea of dig/hitch backside. I really do like the #2 pivot, but you get weird spacing from time to time.

The issue in 3x1 is that all the offset gun formations with a Z Spot type of concept (4WR Trio Str, Wing Offset) is that the back aligns to the 3x1 side. That's probably one of the few weaknesses I have when I'm in an all offset gun offense, the back alignment is almost always strong side in my passing formations. When I go 3x1 and run a 3 man snag type concept, I might just have the backside WR run an alert fade. At the very least, it'll keep the deep half to that side occupied and gives me a press beater.
 
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