Sucking at FM2018 Newcastle thread

[GuyIncognito]

Not sure if I'll stick with this, but I figure it's a good way to keep me engaged and also to crowdsource some solutions/answers since I still don't entirely know what I'm doing.

I created my own (American) coach and started with no job. I immediately went on vacation through May of 2018 and then applied for jobs I thought were interesting. I'm not an expert in English soccer but I know it better than I know the other leagues so I applied for and got hired at Newcastle after a shitty 17-18 run that saw them relegated.

Picking a team is always my hardest decision, but I lucked out. Newcastle was my Winning Eleven team back in the day (because I was an Obafemi Martins fan), and I won't be embarrassed if I fuck it up because it's Newcastle and it's expected.

As the team was being relegated, as soon as I was hired most of the high-priced talent on the roster demanded an exit, and I didn't feel like fighting with them so I granted most of the requests. More money for me to build my own team anyway. After a flurry of activity, here's where I ended up when the window closed.

Several of these guys are already signed elsewhere (Richie, Shelvey, Torres) and will move when the window opens again, but I still need to move 3-4 more of them.






I hadn't really considered doing a thread like this, so I'm already 14 games into the year and doing well. But I'm a lot better than the teams I'm playing against. Lately we've just been pouring in goals, although we've hit a dry spell the last two matches.




The tactics screen is where I'm not sure what the hell I'm doing.

 

[goblue96]

On the left, playing with a winger (S) and a mezzala (A) is going to put two players occupying the same space. The mezzala acts like a central winger and wants to get wide. In doing so, he's running into the same space occupied by the left winger. Either you need to switch the mezzala into a more central role or switch the winger into an inside forward. The goal is have a player in the central space supporting the advanced playmaker (A).

 

[Yankee151]

Thus is shown one of the best newbie tips of FM: Don't use the foreign language positions until you've got the basic ones down

 

[GuyIncognito]

See, this is the part where I put the guy where I want him, and then give him a role based on how green I can make his circle.

So there's essentially been no thought to how these positions interact with each other, and I've just been scoring goals by sheer luck.

 

[Karl Hungus]

On the left, playing with a winger (S) and a mezzala (A) is going to put two players occupying the same space. The mezzala acts like a central winger and wants to get wide. In doing so, he's running into the same space occupied by the left winger. Either you need to switch the mezzala into a more central role or switch the winger into an inside forward. The goal is have a player in the central space supporting the advanced playmaker (A).

Just seeing this now- the Mezzala/ inside forward combo dominates. I don't think the match engine can handle it. There would regularly be 2-3 defenders out in no-man's land just covering nobody.

 

[Karl Hungus]

Also, if you're running 4-2-3-1 with the DM's, see if you can get a competent in the Segundo Volante role. It's basically a BBM who starts from deeper.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Just seeing this now- the Mezzala/ inside forward combo dominates. I don't think the match engine can handle it. There would regularly be 2-3 defenders out in no-man's land just covering nobody.

See, how do people know this stuff? Like how do you figure that out? Are you experimenting with various combinations and then just watching game after game?

 

[goblue96]

Just seeing this now- the Mezzala/ inside forward combo dominates. I don't think the match engine can handle it. There would regularly be 2-3 defenders out in no-man's land just covering nobody.

The match engine doesn’t handle any overload situation properly.

A 5-2-3 with two wingbacks bombing forward and three center strikers just overwhelms the ME.

 

[goblue96]

See, how do people know this stuff? Like how do you figure that out? Are you experimenting with various combinations and then just watching game after game?

Yup and following people on the twitter, reading forums/blog articles from people who invest a lot of time in figuring this shit out.

 

[GuyIncognito]

So then can I just switch my midfielders with each other and put the mezzala next to the inside forward on the right side?

 

[goblue96]

Yes. The inside forward will cut inside and the mezzala will take the space outside outside the inside forward.

 

[GuyIncognito]

I thought learning Crusader Kings II was an investment.

 

[GuyIncognito]

So how constrained do you guys feel to play players where they're comfortable, even if you then have to build around them in ways you otherwise wouldn't?

As far as the formation is concerned, Richie (right side IF) and Maddison (AP) are my best players, so I basically slotted them in at their best position and best role within that position.

Because Richie has to be out on the wing, I just kinda figured we should be symmetrical, so that's where the left wing comes in.

I have a striker so I just put him up there and gave him his best position/role (again without much thought to how he fits).

I wanted 4 at the back just because I didn't know any better, and so then I had two spots to fill in the midfield and just kinda put my two best midfielders there and (again) gave them whatever roles they were best at.

The upshot is: I don't have any cohesive strategy here except to get my best players on the field and get them where they're comfortable playing. There's been very little thought given to how this formation works as a unit.

From everything you guys are saying, that's not a good way to do things. So what do you do instead?

And are there good resources you guys use for tactics/formations, or should I just google it and see what happens?

 

[goblue96]

This is a good starting point for articles.

https://teaandbusquets.com/12-step-guide-tactics

 

[GuyIncognito]

STEP 1: Understand what Mentality, Shape, Roles and Duties do for your team

Well, fuck.

 

[GuyIncognito]

As for setting up set pieces, mine seem to reset all the time, and I don't know why. Like I'll set my kick takers and everything and then I'll check it a couple games later and it will be empty.

Is that a bug or am I doing something to make that happen?

 

[goblue96]

Are you changing the formation? You have to set them for each formation.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Probably. Especially if it applies to moving people around within the formation.

Also, is there a way to get the tactics menu to remember personnel in different formations?

Like, if I move from a 442 to a 4231, can it remember who is playing where in each formation or do I have to manually do that every time?

 

[Bdub]

I think if you save the tactic as a preset, it remembers personnel as well.

 

[Bdub]

https://community.sigames.com/topic/417276-forged-in-steel-the-sheffield-united-project/
This is a great walk-through of what someone that is really good at this game does. He is great at also explaining his tactics etc.

 

[Bdub]

Just realized this is the same guy who writes the blog Goblue96 sent you to.

 

[Yankee151]

Great post, that covers most of the basics

 

[goblue96]

Just realized this is the same guy who writes the blog Goblue96 sent you to.

I believe he’s a former coach that tries to bring real life concepts into FM. He has some sleep disorder where he can only sleep in 2-3 hour stretches. I’ll tweet something to him at 10 pm eastern expecting an answer in the morning and I’ll get an answer right away.

 

[GuyIncognito]

I guess the biggest deficiency I have is just my crappy grasp of soccer tactics in general.

I only ever played rec league, I don't understand the strategic concepts the way I understand football.

 

[NML]

I don't understand the strategic concepts

 

[Bdub]

I guess the biggest deficiency I have is just my crappy grasp of soccer tactics in general.

I only ever played rec league, I don't understand the strategic concepts the way I understand football.

I am the same way. I just don't know enough to make the correct in game adjustments if things don't go great from the start.

 

[GuyIncognito]

To put it another way, I understand advanced soccer tactics the way Madden spergers understand football.

My whole life of playing soccer games has been putting really fast guys on the wings and bombing the ball into the box.

 

[NML]

Well the good news is the more sophisticated stuff isn’t in the game - much in the same way that things like blocking technique aren’t in Madden.

There’s two ways to build a tactic: one that you know and want to implement, or building it around ur players. Obviously the latter makes more sense for you. I think you are right in starting by putting your best players in positions where they can be their best.

From there, start to come up with a super basic plan on how you want the game to unfold. So you’ve got Matt Ritchie as a RW who likes to cut in - obviously you’ve now got space on the wing. Do you have a good RB with good stamina? Maybe have him be a wingback and run up and down the flank all game. Or maybe you don’t - then it might make more sense to have your RB set to defensive FB (or whatever that role is called) and just sit back since he’ll be isolated. Do you have a center mid who likes to drift wide? (Hint: you do!) maybe set him to drift wide on that side to fill that space. Maybe you just want to leave that space open and overload in the middle. There’s not a right or wrong answer here.

If you want it symmetrical, you should probably have symmetrical roles as well. For example, on the left, you’ve got your fullback pushing higher than on the right, and your LW staying wide, whereas on the right the winger is cutting in and your fullback is staying back. Being asymmetrical is okay too.

When you sign players, consider signing lesser players who fit the roles you want vs better players whose best role is different than what fits. This can also save you some money.

Good news is that it doesn’t really matter what you do because Newcastle is significantly better than every other team in the Championship, so you will probably win the league regardless.

 

[GuyIncognito]

When you sign players, consider signing lesser players who fit the roles you want vs better players who’s best role is different than what fits. This can also save you some money.

This is the big question for me, so thanks. Is it better to have worse players who fit better or better players who fit worse.

 

[Karl Hungus]

This is the big question for me, so thanks. Is it better to have worse players who fit better or better players who fit worse.

Better fit> better players... To a point. You could also look at guys who aren't adapted to the role you want, but have the attibutes to do it. Then just retrain.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Yeah, that's another thing. It's not always obvious to me *why* a guy isn't suited to a certain role. Like all the highlighted stats for that role are fine but he's still orange or whatever.

 

[Schauwn]

Orange is just their comfortableness in that role, not necessarily their suitability for that role.

Is how I understand it at least...

 

[GuyIncognito]

I'm finding this very useful, so thanks for the links. Unbeknownst to me I actually created a formation that makes some sense, but this is great at explaining what the various tactical levers actually *do* when you pull them.

https://teaandbusquets.com/4-2-3-1-introduction

 

[GuyIncognito]

So since tinkering around with my tactics and things, we're on a pretty frustrating streak of ties against lesser competition. We're now dominating in possession and shots, but we just aren't scoring at the same clip as before.

This is where I'd normally be tempted to tinker around.



In that guide I was reading, he said he wanted his guys shooting above 50%, well I'm not really there.

Other than that, I don't really know how to analyze this data because I don't know what good numbers look like haha.

 

[NML]

Look at ur clear cut chances and half chances vs actual goals. Are you creating a lot and just getting unlucky? Or are you not creating enough?

If it’s the latter, then we probably do want to tinker

 

[GuyIncognito]

According to tactics -> analysis, we create a clear-cut chance every 47 minutes.

Where do I see "half chances?"

 

[GuyIncognito]

Ah. Found it.

 

[NML]

How was it for these most recent games? Teams could be adjusting to what you are doing, or could just be a bad run. Probably a good idea to adjust your training to focus on attacking for a week or so after scoring three times in four matches.

 

[GuyIncognito]

I'll update after the next match. "Previous 5 games" is the shortest setting and my run of crappiness is only 4 games long.

 

[Travis7401]

I would give Henry Saivet the individual instruction to "shoot less often," as he has the 3rd most shots taken and he's really wasteful. He's only getting 20% on target and has only scored 2 goals from almost 40 shots. Yeesh. I'd rather see him passing the ball in those situations instead of shooting, even if he's got an open look.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Well he fucked his knee up so now he can miss shots from his couch.

Only got one game in so far this week and it was a horrifying tie to Sheffield Wednesday 1-1.

So that's 5 consecutive ties against mostly inferior competition, and only scoring 4 goals in the 5 matches.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Crusader Kings gets less frustrating as you learn it. I'm not so sure here.

Plus I can't have my players poisoned or blinded if they become too troublesome.

 

[GuyIncognito]

A slight reprieve from my perpetual mediocrity, a 1-0 victory over Norwich.

How the hell do work permits work? Mine are always declined. I have like 5 players who've agreed to come but who I'm forced to loan out because they can't play for me

 

[Yankee151]

They are notoriously stingy in real life too, which is why you will see a ton of PL clubs send their players to Spain, Portugal Italy (South Americans get easier visas to these), or the Low Countries until they can get a UK work permit. Usually international caps are a guarantee, otherwise I'm not entirely sure what it takes.

 

[goblue96]

A slight reprieve from my perpetual mediocrity, a 1-0 victory over Norwich.

How the hell do work permits work? Mine are always declined. I have like 5 players who've agreed to come but who I'm forced to loan out because they can't play for me

Click on rules section of the league (I forget which menu it’s under). It describes what it takes to get a Work Permit. Like @Yankee151 said, it’s a pretty high bar.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Today's revelation: set up your own set pieces. Apparently my corner kick defense, by default, was just not marking anybody once they hit the 6 yard box.

You'd think the default would be a little more reasonable haha.