Southpaw Gon' Look Are you from PD looking for evidence on @brick, sir? The Miami Hurricanes Thread aka Baseless Rumors Corner

[Keith1212]

Things under Donna Shalala are a little different then they were under Tad Foote. Donna Shalala has her hand prints all over the place if you choose to see it. Tad Foote wasn't involved with the football program. He let the AD's and head coaches run things. He hated it when the program and the on field antics became the face of the school and he vocally opposed things but he never actually got in the way. The funding has never been on par with big schools but I'm not referring to that. The program is going to be underachieving garbage for as long as Shalala is there. Everything about the football program went down hill as soon as she got there. Shit hire after shit hire. New head coaches come in but certain coaches are retained for no good reason. South Florida pipeline athletes ignored by the staff for no apparent reason. On it goes. Once Golden is gone, her next handpicked shit hire will take over and the current cycle started under her watch will repeat itself.

 

[JAR201166]

poor, poor miami. they don't have the advantages of the baylors, stanfords, dukes, and kansas states of the world. damn that administration holding the man down.

please.

they just haven't found the right coach. relatively cheap, come-out-of-nowhere types are just as likely to have success as any "big hire" type guys. look at the top 25 right now and note how many of those head coaches were relevant/proven more than 5 years ago.

miami has just happened to scrape the bottom of the shit barrel with coaches.

fuck it is 1:35 and i'm attempting a mak troll. speaking of scraping the bottom of shit barrel.

If they can't get Gruden Bill Clark at Uab would be great hire for The U.

 

[Rutgers Mike]

Miami needs an Xs and Os guy or 3. It doesn't matter who the coach is, they will get enough talent to compete at the top third of the ACC, but they need a guy who can scheme things up. Just my perspective as an outsider.

 

[Southpaw]

Mak just threw brick under the bus.

 

[Brick]

Mak just threw brick under the bus.

nah, i was gunning for this and got it.

"The guy whose perpetual also-ran program can't buy a title even with all of Nike's money is an authority on small budget athletics because...."

 

[GR8 2 B FL G8R]

You're in the ACC and you wanna be a basketball school now? Good luck with that.

still relevant

 

[GuyIncognito]

Pretty sure Miami would take Oregon's success over the last 5-10 years.

Yeah, but again, what's the point? Miami doesn't have some billionaire throwing dump trucks of money at the program. The best we can do is a Ponzi schemer who hands out a pittance of other people's money.

Oregon's "success (no titles means scare quotes around "success")" is entirely a byproduct of a condition Miami doesn't possess, so it's inapplicable.

 

[GR8 2 B FL G8R]

So now you're calling hookers and blow a pittance?

 

[GuyIncognito]

Things under Donna Shalala are a little different then they were under Tad Foote. Donna Shalala has her hand prints all over the place if you choose to see it. Tad Foote wasn't involved with the football program. He let the AD's and head coaches run things. He hated it when the program and the on field antics became the face of the school and he vocally opposed things but he never actually got in the way. The funding has never been on par with big schools but I'm not referring to that. The program is going to be underachieving garbage for as long as Shalala is there. Everything about the football program went down hill as soon as she got there. Shit hire after shit hire. New head coaches come in but certain coaches are retained for no good reason. South Florida pipeline athletes ignored by the staff for no apparent reason. On it goes. Once Golden is gone, her next handpicked shit hire will take over and the current cycle started under her watch will repeat itself.

Recruiting has been just fine by any and every objective measure. During certain periods (e.g. when I was there) it was above and beyond "fine."

So I don't think you can just say "Donna Shalala won't hire a coach who will recruit good players" because there's not much support for that to point to.

It's plainly true that Shalala is dead set on the program not returning to the Uncle Luke days. As unfortunate as that is, it's at least understandable, and it's one of the reasons we didn't get strung up by the NCAA last year. Had we done what so many people want (including me, deep down), the NCAA would have buried us last year and we'd be wailing about spending the next 5 years on sanctions.

So it's whatever. If last night is an indication of where this season is headed, then there are going to be some wholesale changes at the end of the year. Will they make the right pick this time? I don't know. As long as the campus is where it is, it's going to be an attractive job for an aspiring coach.

I think it's a bit weird to say Shalala doesn't want the program to be successful, she just doesn't want the type of "success" that guys like Bobby Petrino, for instance, tend to bring. I think that's perfectly defensible even if I don't like it.

If you think I wouldn't love to see a return of this, you don't know me very well, but it's not in the cards so we better figure something else out.

 

[GR8 2 B FL G8R]

Bring back the Uncle Luke days

 

[Mr. Radpants]

Agreed

 

[bruin]

Did a double take when I saw Lamar Thomas on Louisville's sidelines last night.

 

[Mr. Radpants]

He used to work with some Miami receivers IIRC.

Golden is boned. The team hasn't gotten any better since he took over, he can't beat good teams, and he's stuck with two poor coordinators. I couldn't believe how terrible Coley's play-calling was last night.

I was hard on the OL last night when I was angry, but Coley didn't put them in a position to do well.

If last night was indicative of the season we're going to have, and I have no reason to believe that it isn't, many more losses are coming and the entire coaching staff will be canned. At least Coley can recruit so the job should be somewhat attractive.

 

[Rutgers Mike]

He used to work with some Miami receivers IIRC.

Golden is boned. The team hasn't gotten any better since he took over, he can't beat good teams, and he's stuck with two poor coordinators. I couldn't believe how terrible Coley's play-calling was last night.

I was hard on the OL last night when I was angry, but Coley didn't put them in a position to do well.

If last night was indicative of the season we're going to have, and I have no reason to believe that it isn't, many more losses are coming and the entire coaching staff will be canned. At least Coley can recruit so the job should be somewhat attractive.

10 year contract. GJGE Shalala.

 

[CJ_24]

shoot 'em, cut out their tongues, then shoot their tongues

 

[bighuskermav]

Any Miami fans coming to Lincoln in a few weeks? Do your fans travel much these days?

 

[GuyIncognito]

Travel? They don't even come to home games. We do have a pretty far flung national fanbase, but I can't imagine there will be all that many in Lincoln.

 

[Keith1212]

Any Miami fans coming to Lincoln in a few weeks? Do your fans travel much these days?

Yea I'll be there.

I get in Friday afternoon.

 

[Keith1212]

Travel? They don't even come to home games. We do have a pretty far flung national fanbase, but I can't imagine there will be all that many in Lincoln.

Games at Sun Life flat out suck. The stadium is literally terrible in every way(concessions, atmosphere, the seats, the view, the PA guy, getting there, the tail gating, fucking EVERYTHING I'm not even exaggerating). Then the product on the field is just terrible so why go when you can escape most of the shit outside of the Canes themselves and watch at home or a watch party? What value is there in going to Sun Life? Support the same BOT and school admin that has created this joke? They can fuck themselves. Supporting the "kids" is not worth all that other shit.

Away games are the only option for a somewhat enjoyable experience if as a Miami fan you can get over that Miami is a bad joke that plays like shit and is coached like shit. I go to away games because I at least get to support the Canes while only dealing with the shit Cane product but I get a decent game day experience as well.

Are you seriously trying to blame people for not wanting to go to a shit stadium in a shit area to watch a shit product that has little to no hope of not being shit that doesn't play like or even try to embrace or emulate any aspect of the history that brought them to the forefront in the first place?

 

[fsuprime]

agree, sun life sucks for non-cane games too, the bowl games are miserable

 

[GR8 2 B FL G8R]

So glad to be leaving this banana republic that is Miami. Good riddance to you'll.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Shalala leaving at the end of the year.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/university-miami-president-shalala-retire-25350085

 

[GuyIncognito]

Are you seriously trying to blame people for not wanting to go to a shit stadium in a shit area to watch a shit product that has little to no hope of not being shit that doesn't play like or even try to embrace or emulate any aspect of the history that brought them to the forefront in the first place?

lol, huh? I'm not "blaming" anybody like it's some moral judgment. Just acknowledging the fact that Miami can't fill its own stadium (and that was true of the OB as well), let alone someone else's.

That's the city of Miami, in every sport.

 

[Keith1212]

lol, huh? I'm not "blaming" anybody like it's some moral judgment. Just acknowledging the fact that Miami can't fill its own stadium (and that was true of the OB as well), let alone someone else's.

That's the city of Miami, in every sport.

Ok. Because he didn't ask you about the home games, he asked if Miami fans travel and the correct answer is they do albeit in small numbers. You however chose to answer sarcastically by mentioning that fans don't even go to home games before answering his question. It seemed a little judgmental to me.

Anyway while there is some small measure of hope for the future of the football program with Shalala leaving, there is no guarantee that the idiot BOT won't just hire another micromanaging, clueless meddler that can't stop sinking their athletically idiotic fingers into the athletic part of the school.

 

[Lightningwar]

Think this is the last straw for Olsen?

 

[GuyIncognito]

I sure hope so haha. How many strikes do you get?

 

[CJ_24]

I sure hope so haha. How many strikes do you get?

Depends on if you're famous jameis or not

 

[Rutgers Mike]

Shocking that all of Golden's Jersey recruits screwed up.

 

[GuyIncognito]

#4 for Nebraska is a bit of a punk who's been getting worked all night.

 

[Mr. Radpants]

Announcers are killing me.

Golden done though.

Enjoyed the offense tonight for the most part.

 

[Mr. Radpants]

Yeah 4 is a punk.

Offense was good, defense was awful. Golden sticking with his best man gonna cost him his job.

 

[GuyIncognito]

I agree.

And yeah no moral victories, but I liked the fight. Every defense Pelini has ever coached acts just like that, and the offense didn't wilt.

But the D is just putrid and there's no conceivable way to defend it.

 

[bighuskermav]

LOL at not even knowing who Randy Gregory is.

In all seriousness, I hate your team's guts, but I certainly respect you. I will be cheering for you the rest of the way. It should be a helluva game next year too.

 

[Mr. Radpants]

At this point I hate college football. I don't know who anyone is if they aren't in a Canes uniform.

Good luck the rest of the way

 

[GuyIncognito]

I know who he is, I'm just in the habit of referring to opponents by numbers. It's an old habit.

Personally I thought the OL did a great job against him yesterday, and I think any OL that would stand there and let him take that shot at Kaaya should hang up the pads.

And yeah, I think the announcers made a much bigger deal out of the scuffles than was justified. I enjoyed the fight. And I enjoyed the NU fans and team allowing that "game within a game" there on that last drive. That's a lot of fun.

 

[Mr. Radpants]

Sounds like Golden defended the defensive scheme and blamed tackling and fumbles.

 

[PSUEagle]

So glad PSU didn't hire Al Golden: dodged a huge bullet there (cue the "fuck state penn" haha).

I really think Miami is one of the worst coached teams in the country, on both sides of the ball. Defensively they're trying to be a Two Gap 3-4 Quarters team when their recruiting base is traditionally weak at the one spot you must be dominant at in that scheme (strong, well coached DL). In addition, their alignments in the secondary are all fucked up against any kind of Slot/Trips formation, putting them at an immediate disadvantage. It was hilarious watching Petrino pick on this defense with an offense that isn't very good, IMO.

Offensively, I have no idea what Miami is trying to do. It really feels like James Coley just picks random plays off of his sheet and hopes for something good to happen. He comes across as a moron in clinic talks speaking wise, so it's pretty scary that he can be hired as anything other than a WR/RB/TE coach (aka an "athlete" position where his recruiting skills make up for his lack of ability to coach). I mean there's a reason Jimbo relaxed and started letting his assistants handle in game adjustments more once he moved on.

Hopefully Miami gets serious about football going forward, because I hate seeing a great school like them flounder around like an NC State.

 

[Lightningwar]

The whole coley thing is rather fascinating to me. We used to think it was all on Fisher for why our offense would run idiot plays like a reverse on 3rd and 1. Now it seems to be coley decided that crap. It seems last years team rarely ran a reverse. And I cant think of a single time they did it on 3rd and short. Which the 2012 team seemed to do at least once a game.

This year could end with an interesting twist. Is it possible UF and UM fire their coaches?

 

[GuyIncognito]

I think Golden will get another year if he's willing to make coordinator changes. If not, and the team doesn't decide to win the division or anything, I think he's gone.

The indignation of the ex-players is pretty deafening at this point, and that carries weight at this program, especially since we don't have a bunch of big money boosters calling the shots.

 

[Wooly]

So glad PSU didn't hire Al Golden: dodged a huge bullet there (cue the "fuck state penn" haha).

I really think Miami is one of the worst coached teams in the country, on both sides of the ball. Defensively they're trying to be a Two Gap 3-4 Quarters team when their recruiting base is traditionally weak at the one spot you must be dominant at in that scheme (strong, well coached DL). In addition, their alignments in the secondary are all fucked up against any kind of Slot/Trips formation, putting them at an immediate disadvantage. It was hilarious watching Petrino pick on this defense with an offense that isn't very good, IMO.

Offensively, I have no idea what Miami is trying to do. It really feels like James Coley just picks random plays off of his sheet and hopes for something good to happen. He comes across as a moron in clinic talks speaking wise, so it's pretty scary that he can be hired as anything other than a WR/RB/TE coach (aka an "athlete" position where his recruiting skills make up for his lack of ability to coach). I mean there's a reason Jimbo relaxed and started letting his assistants handle in game adjustments more once he moved on.

Hopefully Miami gets serious about football going forward, because I hate seeing a great school like them flounder around like an NC State.

I thought Miami had a good DL tradition. No? If nothing else, they are in Florida for pete's sake, and they inability to get appropriate DL talent is completely on them. How many teams would kill to get to recruit Florida for DL talent, regardless of a 1 gap or 2 gap scheme.

 

[PSUEagle]

I thought Miami had a good DL tradition. No? If nothing else, they are in Florida for pete's sake, and they inability to get appropriate DL talent is completely on them. How many teams would kill to get to recruit Florida for DL talent, regardless of a 1 gap or 2 gap scheme.

I should have been more clear.

Miami does have a great tradition at DL (really everywhere sans OL) but all of those guys with the exception of Vince Wilfork were penetrating, up the field types more suited for a one gap 4-3 style defense.

@GuyIncognito can probably expound in more detail, but IMO South Florida athletes aren't coached nearly as well as players from states like California or Ohio, much less Texas, and the position groups that routinely shows up in is linemen and QB's. Guys who grow up playing ball down there are basically "taught" to fly around and be aggressive. Putting defensive players who've been doing that their whole lives in a system that requires them to hold the point and read and react is a recipe for failure, and that's basically why Miami's defense has been an abortion for Golden's entire tenure. What you've got right now is a defense full of players who are so conscious about their assignments (of which there are more than in a more straight forward system) that they play tentatively, and that's always a recipe for getting beat defensively.

The model for what Miami should be doing defensively is Michigan State, IMO: simple, aggressive scheme that puts a premium on guys that can match up athletically on the perimeter (something the Canes should always be able to find) along with DL who attack with abandon up field. That Golden can't adapt to where he's at is an indictment on him and his coaching staff.

To be clear, I'm actually a fan of two gapping along the DL: Stanford does it very well, and Chip Kelly basically forced the defensive staff at Oregon into a similar system once his offense routinely killed their one gap defense in practice repeatedly (and he's moved the Eagles in that direction despite sub optimal personnel for that style). Playing this style allows your linebackers to slow play all the read stuff and not always end up a gap short in the option game without involving your safeties heavily in run support. The problem once again is that Miami simply can't recruit to that style, IMO.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Miami doesn't have a good OL tradition? Seriously? Do I need to start listing the the OLs we've put into the league just in recent memory?

Setting that aside, along with my hyperventilation bag, I think the rest of the analysis is legit. I mean it's kinda insane to generalize all of Florida football that way, but there are certainly trends that prove themselves over the years. I'd say the biggest problem in South Florida football is the way QBs are brought along, which is why Miami has such a long history of recruiting nationwide for QBs, dating way back to Torretta (CA), Kosar (OH), Kelly (PA), Testaverde (NY), Steve Walsh (MN), Ken Dorsey (CA), etc.

There are some OL instructional issues, but that's precisely why Miami's (good, IMO) tradition of OL is the byproduct of Art Kehoe investing so much time drawing in OLs from around the country (and Canada) rather than just taking whatever Miami NW and Booker T spit out every year, which you CAN do at the skill spots.

As for the defense, I agree. Everyone agrees. Whenever Miami has had a stout defense over the last 30 years, it's been based on winning the one on one matchups and being stronger and faster and scarier than the guy on the other side. That's how these kids are taught to play from the time they're 5, and if you're going to rely on Miami high schools to supply your defensive talent then it's lunacy to try and change that.

 

[CJ_24]

Canes beat duke.w00t w00t

 

[GuyIncognito]

Pretty good. The defense played with a lot less respect for the opponent, which is what we need. Not sure if that's because it was Duke or if it represents some kind of philosophical shift, but it was nice to see either way.

Offensive scheme is still a complete mess. Yearby and Duke should have split 50 carries last night. Instead we threw 34 passes in a game we led from the first drive. There's just no flow or consistency.

It also bothers me that, as long as we are going to keep throwing, we don't do much to get the ball to Dorsett or Coley. Coley dropped an easy TD last night and Dorsett got had another one reversed, but there's just too much talent there for them to have combined for 18 catches in 5 games.

Hopefully those OL injuries are minor. I think that's developing into a really good group.

 

[Mr. Radpants]

Had to work last night, but followed a bit on my phone and read positive reviews about the defense. Sounds like they made some adjustments and played more aggressive.

Mak was Berios getting tons of looks last night again? Or who was the offense/Kaaya favoring over Dorsett and Coley?

 

[GuyIncognito]

I think it might just be a (really) young QB who feels more comfortable throwing slants and digs to the inside receivers than trying to wing it to the outside guys. But yeah, it was the same MO it's been: inside routes to Berrios and Walford and outside screens to Lewis and Herb.

We did throw two go routes to Dorsett and Coley. Coley dropped his when he had three steps on the DB and Dorsett was given a TD but had it reversed for being out of bounds.

It just seems like a waste. Coley and Dorsett are both stars, I can't imagine how frustrated they must be with this offense.

 

[PSUEagle]

Miami doesn't have a good OL tradition? Seriously? Do I need to start listing the the OLs we've put into the league just in recent memory?

Setting that aside, along with my hyperventilation bag, I think the rest of the analysis is legit. I mean it's kinda insane to generalize all of Florida football that way, but there are certainly trends that prove themselves over the years. I'd say the biggest problem in South Florida football is the way QBs are brought along, which is why Miami has such a long history of recruiting nationwide for QBs, dating way back to Torretta (CA), Kosar (OH), Kelly (PA), Testaverde (NY), Steve Walsh (MN), Ken Dorsey (CA), etc.

There are some OL instructional issues, but that's precisely why Miami's (good, IMO) tradition of OL is the byproduct of Art Kehoe investing so much time drawing in OLs from around the country (and Canada) rather than just taking whatever Miami NW and Booker T spit out every year, which you CAN do at the skill spots.

As for the defense, I agree. Everyone agrees. Whenever Miami has had a stout defense over the last 30 years, it's been based on winning the one on one matchups and being stronger and faster and scarier than the guy on the other side. That's how these kids are taught to play from the time they're 5, and if you're going to rely on Miami high schools to supply your defensive talent then it's lunacy to try and change that.

I think we're splitting hairs here.

Miami does have OL who've made it in the league, but compared to every single other position the amount of dominant players isn't anywhere comparable. I mean who is the best NFL OL Miami produced? Searcy? McKinnie? Both good players (McKinnie more so when he wasn't eating his way out of the league) but they weren't all timers.

Compare that to every other position where Miami basically has All-Pro/HOF/future HOF guys is all I'm saying.

Also at the risk of pissing you off further haha, IMO Kehoe's not that good (or at least his OL aren't that good). Stoutland was a much better coach IMO: there's a reason he's where he's at now where as Art basically was out of football until Golden decided to bring him back. Last good OL he had was the 2003 team.

I think that's also another problem Miami has: due to their budget they are really forced to hire under-qualified/sub-optimal assistant coaches. I know it's cool hiring guys like Ice Harris or Michael Barrow because they're ex-canes' but one of the reasons Miami players don't develop IMO is because they aren't being coached well. Having good positional assistants is where that stuff shows up most. Occasionally you'll get guys who are really good like John Palermo or Rick Venturi on the DL, but more often then not you've been stuck with crap.

 

[Brick]

Also at the risk of pissing you off further haha, IMO Kehoe's not that good (or at least his OL aren't that good). Stoutland was a much better coach IMO: there's a reason he's where he's at now where as Art basically was out of football until Golden decided to bring him back. Last good OL he had was the 2003 team.

[BCOLOR=transparent] [/BCOLOR]

 

[GuyIncognito]

I just disagree. Chris Myers just started his 100th straight game at center for the Texans. He's already been to 2 Pro Bowls and very well could end up being an "all-timer." As much of one as this program has produced in the last decade. How many all-timer NFL LBs have we produced lately? How many QBs? RBs? DLs?

I'm not sure what the standard is, but I'd put our OL production right at the top of the position list in recent memory.

The fact of the matter is that we haven't produced legit NFL talent in some time now. That's a top down program issue at every position. Maybe not at TE, but the best example there is a guy who played football for 4 months at Miami after finishing his basketball career.

To say that Art Kehoe can't coach OLs anymore just doesn't make sense. He was thrown under the bus by Coker (along with Sol) to buy Coker an extra year, then he want to La Tech and Ole Miss. Then, in a move that almost NEVER happens in this day and age, he was brought back to Miami, and the OL has been solid ever since. How you can draw from that that he's an inferior coach is utterly beyond me.

I think the OL was the lone bright spot against Nebraska, I think they dominated Duke, I think they're going to dominate GT tomorrow.

 

[GuyIncognito]

One of these days a team down 9-11 at the end of a game is going to kick a FG as soon as they get in range rather than wasting the rest of the clock trying to score a TD first. And I will mail that coach a dollar.

Anywho, that sucked. Defense was just terrible. Terrible scheme, terrible execution.