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2014/15 NBA Thread pelican and okc bitches

Reel

Reel

Off dem Milds and dat Yak
Community Liaison
PSUEagle said:
@Reel

Take a look at this Kirk Goldsberry article from a few months ago: http://grantland.com/the-triangle/kevin-love-cleveland-cavaliers-anthony-davis-new-orleans-pelicans/

He makes a great point: do we really want a game where Davis (will be the NBA's best player within a couple years) is hanging out on the perimeter simply because the math says he should?

The new rules with regard to hand checking and zone defense have been an overall positive, but hopefully Adam "best commissioner in sports" Silver doesn't let the pendulum swing too far the other way.
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before I read the article, im going to say absolutely NOT.

There was an article on Bourbonstreetshots (pels blog if you couldnt tell) that did an analysis of I believe Rondo (im going to see if i can find it,but its at least a year old) but the article talked about how Rondo increased his 3pt% just slightly one season, then all of a sudden, he fell in love with the three, and started to shoot them more, meanwhile, the area where he made his bread and butter (the paint shooting layups and floaters) went ignored and his overall shooting % declined as a result.

Please anyone reading my comment dont make too much out of it as im going off memory and i might be mixing the people up but i could've sworn it was Rondo.

I had this same convo with some of my old coworkers who watch pels basketball and all they kept saying was "wait until AD gets a 3pt shot like Kevin Love"...I kept telling them, thats not what you want him to do. I mean, if he can squeak out one occasionally, fine, but imo, you dont want him to rely on that shot especially when he does so well in that 15-18ft range and how he uses his long arms after his first step to get layups or draw contact.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE when the pels play memphis and see Gasol and ZBO go to work in the post. THATS how i like AD to play. His face up game is going to be just cray if he continues at this trajectory. I dont think anyone thinks he should have the Dream Shake, but just the threat of him playing with his back to the basket/facing up opens up so many things for the spot up shooters on the team.

Look at J.Smith and how his career has turned.
 
doh

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
Reel said:
before I read the article, im going to say absolutely NOT.

There was an article on Bourbonstreetshots (pels blog if you couldnt tell) that did an analysis of I believe Rondo (im going to see if i can find it,but its at least a year old) but the article talked about how Rondo increased his 3pt% just slightly one season, then all of a sudden, he fell in love with the three, and started to shoot them more, meanwhile, the area where he made his bread and butter (the paint shooting layups and floaters) went ignored and his overall shooting % declined as a result.

Please anyone reading my comment dont make too much out of it as im going off memory and i might be mixing the people up but i could've sworn it was Rondo.

I had this same convo with some of my old coworkers who watch pels basketball and all they kept saying was "wait until AD gets a 3pt shot like Kevin Love"...I kept telling them, thats not what you want him to do. I mean, if he can squeak out one occasionally, fine, but imo, you dont want him to rely on that shot especially when he does so well in that 15-18ft range and how he uses his long arms after his first step to get layups or draw contact.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE when the pels play memphis and see Gasol and ZBO go to work in the post. THATS how i like AD to play. His face up game is going to be just cray if he continues at this trajectory. I dont think anyone thinks he should have the Dream Shake, but just the threat of him playing with his back to the basket/facing up opens up so many things for the spot up shooters on the team.

Look at J.Smith and how his career has turned.
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Semi-related to this post, but I always think the value in sports is going after what is against conventional wisdom. Right now everyone is trying to build a team like Rockets/Warriors/others who play tempo and chuck up 3s. It's the model most are going after. I think right now the value might be going to what Memphis has done and grind out teams. They gave the Warriors easily more trouble than Rockets (assuming the Warriors win game 5 or even really came 6). Talent wise they are complete garbage at the 1-2-3 (sorry whoever thought Mike Conley is better than Steph Curry) but somehow took probably the Western Conference champs to 6.

With how small teams have gotten, I think there could be tremendous value with getting an o-boards/tough down low/multiple on the floor at the same time back to the basket guy team. People also don't really know how to defend it too with how little it's being utilized.

Obviously it's hard to find those guys, but they might be the hidden value right now in basketball and not the 3/D guys that everyone is in love with.
 
Bucksin04

Bucksin04

Well-Known Member
47AamVd.jpg
 
OU11

OU11

Pleighboi
Utopia Moderator
doh said:
Semi-related to this post, but I always think the value in sports is going after what is against conventional wisdom. Right now everyone is trying to build a team like Rockets/Warriors/others who play tempo and chuck up 3s. It's the model most are going after. I think right now the value might be going to what Memphis has done and grind out teams. They gave the Warriors easily more trouble than Rockets (assuming the Warriors win game 5 or even really came 6). Talent wise they are complete garbage at the 1-2-3 (sorry whoever thought Mike Conley is better than Steph Curry) but somehow took probably the Western Conference champs to 6.

With how small teams have gotten, I think there could be tremendous value with getting an o-boards/tough down low/multiple on the floor at the same time back to the basket guy team. People also don't really know how to defend it too with how little it's being utilized.

Obviously it's hard to find those guys, but they might be the hidden value right now in basketball and not the 3/D guys that everyone is in love with.
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This would be my thinking if i was a team without a dominant back court already. Problem is how do you do it? You cant make a front court anywhere close to zbo and marc, there arent any left.
 
doh

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
OU11 said:
This would be my thinking if i was a team without a dominant back court already. Problem is how do you do it? You cant make a front court anywhere close to zbo and marc, there arent any left.
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Yeah that's really the problem. It's interesting too to look at how they started out this year healthy... They destroyed the Western Conference. IF they just didn't have hot garbage like Courtney Lee, Jeff Green, the two white back up PGs playing major minutes they would've had a great chance to win it all.

I know it's all about "spacing" but there were a few scrums on the o-boards in the Warriors series that you never ever see anymore and made me believe with all the extra baskets you'd get, you could make this thing work.
 
evil1

evil1

Well-Known Member
JR Smith is a prime example of a feast or famine player. Good JR Smith will provide a huge spark off the bench, especially if he is in a structured environment where everyone knows their role. Bad JR Smith is a headcase who will make bonehead plays and ultimately become a cancer if not checked. Which one you get varies from week to week.


With regard to the current advanced-metrics thinking that teams should go smaller and adopt the Rockets/Warriors run and shoot 3's philosophy, this is based on a current snapshot of the NBA where there aren't very many players who know how to play in the post or do other things. Ten years ago there was a stretch were a lot of college and NBA players didn't shoot very well from 3pt range or the free throw line. Trying to use this strategy then would not have been very successful except for maybe one or two teams. Five years from now, there may be a increase in post players making the current thinking outdated.

My personal belief is that you need a threat to score in the paint in order to set up the three point shot. Moreover, this threat needs to come from more than one source. If you don't, then eventually the other team will be able to make your offense one dimensional and take what you want to do away from you. For example, the Spurs three point shooting was ultimately generated by Tony Parker/Ginobli driving to the rim or by throwing the ball to Duncan in the post. When they didn't have at least two of these players clicking is when they were vulnerable.

Likewise, Golden State is so much better when Curry and Thompson look to drive instead of automatically settling for the three point shot. Harden does this well, but he is the only player on the Rockets who is a consistent threat to do so (yes, I include yo Dwight "never developed an offensive game" Howard).
 
PSUEagle

PSUEagle

Well-Known Member
@Reel

Figured you would agree RE: Anthony Davis

There have been multiple articles published over the last couple years that argue that the post up is the least efficient set in basketball. It takes 5-7 seconds usually before a shot occurs, stagnating the offense. Compare that to teams that penetrate and work in motion built off that: things happen more quickly and ball movement in general is enhanced.

I really hope we see a comeback in the next decade or so of multi-skilled big men who can punish teams that play small. Memphis could have done that if they had better wings than Jeff Green/Courtney Lee/Vince Carter/Tony Allen (I like Conley at PG), but that cramped spacing just makes it hard. Zach Lowe's talked about it before: 3 is fundamentally more than 2. The Grizzlies will have stretches where they bang and work their ass off to go an 8-0 run only for GSW to come down and pop a couple triples. Makes it tough.

Interestingly, the 76ers could actually be a team that bucks this "trend" if things work out in the current rebuild. Embiid is a potentially dominant low post scorer, while Noel is the perfect big man for the modern NBA: does all of the dirty work on offense while providing great impact as the anchor of your defense. The problem is whether they fit together, obviously. If Philly got the #1 pick Towns/Embiid would have been perfect and would have basically made it impossible for a team like GSW to play Draymond Green at center, but the current pair isn't as versatile (mostly due to Nerlens' limitations on offense).

The irony of this is that Hinkie has an analytics background working in Houston. And that's why I'm very interested in how Philly plays once they're in the competitive phase. Of course, I would argue that the 76ers' current roster construction has more to do with how the last couple drafts broke (the best players in both classes were big men who fell due to most GM's feeling the pressure of immediacy) as opposed to some grand plan.
 
zoltan

zoltan

Well-Known Member
The grizz need a sick 2 guard and they will win a championship.

Either that or they need to enhance their ball movement to that of the spurs because they can't seem to get over the hump right now.
 
Bucksin04

Bucksin04

Well-Known Member
Points last night:

Joe Harris: 7 (in 6 minutes)
Kendrick Perkins: 3 (in 5 minutes)
Mike Miller: 3 (in 5 minutes)
Al Horford: 2 (in 29 minutes)
 
evil1

evil1

Well-Known Member
PSUEagle said:
@Reel

There have been multiple articles published over the last couple years that argue that the post up is the least efficient set in basketball. It takes 5-7 seconds usually before a shot occurs, stagnating the offense. Compare that to teams that penetrate and work in motion built off that: things happen more quickly and ball movement in general is enhanced
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My problem is that these articles are based on the current crop of players are just aren't very good in the post. Go back 10-15 years when Shaq and Duncan were running roughshod over everyone, then the post up would have been one of the most efficient sets in basketball. It is like the NFL in that offenses are cyclical depending on how teams adapt and the talent of the current players.
 
bruin228

bruin228

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Seems like basketball is in the same situation football is. Lots of movement towards a finesse type of offense that can generate more points. I agree with @doh about going against the grain (which in this case is actually a return to old styles) will allow certain teams to be really successful. To run something like GS or Houston's offense with someone like Anthony Davis would be moronic.
 
Reel

Reel

Off dem Milds and dat Yak
Community Liaison
I know for a fact that the pels FO wanted to push the tempo, not to the level of Houston of gsw but they wanted to have more transition scoring. Pretty sure they were near the bottom of the league in transition points

Saw they interviewed JVG. Lawd, didn't think it was possible that he would even entertain leaving court side.
 
sayo

sayo

YEET
Harden just tied the record for most turnovers in a playoff game. He's been garbage but the Rockets are still in it.
 
doh

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
That was one of the worst performances by a "MVP"-caliber player in a big game. Just so many turnovers and made nothing.

I think tonight was why the Warriors were so good this year. They can win ugly games like this. They have guys like Ezeli who are very solid players and can have a good game like tonight. Just overall a nice and fairly easy series. Warriors vs. LBJ will be interesting as hell.
 
bruin228

bruin228

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Kerr should've been COTY. Most wins in the league his first year and first Finals appearance for the Warriors in 40 years.
 
coogrfan

coogrfan

Well-Known Member
doh said:
That was one of the worst performances by a "MVP"-caliber player in a big game. Just so many turnovers and made nothing.
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The worst part is that this one dreadful game by Harden will completely overshadow the fact that the Rox role players were beyond awful in this series.

doh said:
I think tonight was why the Warriors were so good this year. They can win ugly games like this. They have guys like Ezeli who are very solid players and can have a good game like tonight. Just overall a nice and fairly easy series.
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"Easy", huh? Ok.

doh said:
Warriors vs. LBJ will be interesting as hell.
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GS is the class of the league. Warriors in 5.
 
PSUEagle

PSUEagle

Well-Known Member
GR8 2 B FL G8R said:
Who thinks Lebron wills this to 6 or 7?
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I think it's GSW in five, maybe a sweep.

That said, I was completely wrong about how that CLE-ATL series would play out. Thought it would go at least six, and thought Atlanta had a real shot. Ooops.

Like some of us have said before, the one team actually capable of knocking off the Warriors (San Antonio) blew their shot in the last regular season game.

BTW, Mark Jackson is such an asshat. When will Bay Area owners learn not to hire evangelical christians with minimal coaching experience (Jackson, Singletary)? I love seeing him squirm as the Warriors keep advancing.
 
PSUEagle

PSUEagle

Well-Known Member
GR8 2 B FL G8R said:
Do you feel that their Evangelical Christianity hurt their corching? I have not heard this theory.
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Not necessarily, although I strongly dislike people who try to throw their religion in my face.

More commenting on the similarity of Singletary and Jackson:

-Both evangelical/in your face christians
-Both were really good/great players
-Both "skipped the line" and became HC's way sooner than they should have (Jackson especially: JVG would complain five years ago at the "injustice" of someone with zero coaching experience not getting a head job before GSW brought him in)
-Both were terrible X&O's guys who basically led with emotion
-Both were extremely insecure about the stuff they didn't know, preferring sycophants as opposed to the best quality assistants (this is especially evident when you compare the staffs Kerr and Jackson have/had)

Basically, Jackson reminds me so much of some of the guys I've worked with over the last few years: insecure dumbasses who's greatness as players gave them an opportunity they didn't deserve. And stuck in the past in how they viewed the game, unable to think outside the box and find creative solutions to problems. Basically troggery and mongoloid behavior.
 
evil1

evil1

Well-Known Member
I like the Warriors in 5. Forget about offense, GS is the best defensive team Cleveland will have faced in the playoffs. In last year's Finals, LeBron was forced to work hard for everything by Kawhai Leonard. This year he faces a similar high quality defender in Draymond Green. When Green isn't in the game, LeBron will be guarded by former all NBA defensive team member Andre Igoudala. For Cleveland to win this series, their role players are going to have to outplay the role players of GS. I think GS is just too deep and too good.
 
Bucksin04

Bucksin04

Well-Known Member
evil1 said:
I like the Warriors in 5. Forget about offense, GS is the best defensive team Cleveland will have faced in the playoffs. In last year's Finals, LeBron was forced to work hard for everything by Kawhai Leonard. This year he faces a similar high quality defender in Draymond Green. When Green isn't in the game, LeBron will be guarded by former all NBA defensive team member Andre Igoudala. For Cleveland to win this series, their role players are going to have to outplay the role players of GS. I think GS is just too deep and too good.
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He also absolutely torched Draymond Green in the only game he played against GS this year. Don't have the stats handy, but I believe SportsCenter ran a graphic the other night saying he went 7-13 for like 16 points or something when being guarded by Green. Scored 42 overall. http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400579146

EDIT: Also, Klay Thompson officially diagnosed with concussion from last night. Must clear concussion protocol/tests before being able to play Game 1 http://sports.yahoo.com/news/warriors-g-klay-thompson-suffers-concussion-054843070--nba.html
 
whiteyc_77

whiteyc_77

The Skeleton Debator
Mod Alumni
Bucksin04 said:
He also absolutely torched Draymond Green in the only game he played against GS this year. Don't have the stats handy, but I believe SportsCenter ran a graphic the other night saying he went 7-13 for like 16 points or something when being guarded by Green. Scored 42 overall. http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400579146
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"absolutely torched Draymond Green" "went 7-13 for like 16 points or something when being guarded by Green."

So, when guarded by Draymond Green, LeBron shot his usual percentage from the floor? Absolutely torched?

-YTC
 
wolverine318

wolverine318

Well-Known Member
Mod Alumni
Not torched but if Green is going to stop him he will have to go better than holding him to a 50%+ shooter percentage.

CAVS in 6 cuz I'm a homer. I just feel this team has what it takes to get it done.

It kind of sucks Kyrie isn't healthy. It would have been fun to watch him go vs Curry in the series.
 
Tailback U

Tailback U

Well-Known Member
Has there ever been a better draft job than this Warriors team?

draymond, Barnes, and festus were all drafted in the same class. We all know about curry and Thompson...

amazing job from top to bottom by the Warriors org.
 
Bucksin04

Bucksin04

Well-Known Member
Sorry, meant the Warriors, not Green specifically. Don't think he missed more than one shot against anyone else who tried to guard him and shot around 50%+ against Green
 
Reel

Reel

Off dem Milds and dat Yak
Community Liaison
the thing that pisses me off about most of these GSW fans (not anyone in particular here) is that like a lot of other people did initially, they all thought Curry was too thin to play in the NBA and that he would probably never have a healthy season b/c of his early injury issues and were almost borderline ready to call him a bust

Now, he's strung together a couple of relatively healthy seasons and now all of a sudden, "i told you so's" are everywhere ...FOH with that

dont get me wrong, he has certainly made me a believer and I wish him continued success throughout his career, but all this bangwagon shit just gets on my nerves
 
Bmack

Bmack

IRREGULAR HUMAN USER
Mod Alumni
Warriors don't stand a chance without curry and Thompson.*

*contingent upon dellavadova getting a good dive into Thur knees and ankles
 
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