• Hello Guest. We are upgrading the server's XenForo versions. This has to be done in stages. 1.5.18 ---> 1.5.23 ---> 2.0.0 ---> 2.0.12 ---> 2.1.0. I will likely upgrade each one and leave it for a day or so to see if there's any kinks. When moving from 1.x to 2.x, our add-ons will cease to work. Much of the functionality of said add-ons is now native within XenForo 2.x, so I don't think we'll miss much if anything. IF we are, we can try out new 2.x XF add-ons.

Air Raid Offense

Can someone write a guide for beating cover 2 man press when I don't want to run the ball every single down (perhaps worse personel) I used that wr post play and it was nice but I need more viraty

In ranked just now I scored 63 points with 660 total offense, and lost by 10
I would attack the seam between the safety's. Maybe use a bunch quads formation streak both outside guys to occupy the two deep safety's and streak the guy on tip of the bunch and attack the seams. The wr on the tip of the bunch needs to be your fastest wr you have to attack the seam. You can use the other Wrs on underneath routes or sight adjustments. If you don't have speed your chasing it.
 
ea deleted/corrupted my playbook, I fixed everything besides getting stick as the quick audible of trio 4 wr, can anyone tell me their quick audibles for that formation>
 

bruin228

Madden Mobile Addict
NCAA Moderator
Strong Power from Ace or Twin TE Slot
Stretch from Twin TE Slot (kind of redundant, so see which one you like more)
Slam from any formation
HB Zone from H Twins or Strong Slot (the H Twins one is better, in my opinion, but you can HUNH into Split Offset from Strong Slot and new school Raid teams love that formation)
Stretch from Spread Flex
Counter from Trips Open

Those are the ones I've used and liked, I don't really mess with Pistol too much, though.

Not sure about the Stick audible, I've only used that formation in one playbook and I believe it gave me Double Screen and I was too lazy to change it.
 

Wolfman21

Well-Known Member
Ok. so does Vertical/height matter for wideouts? How do you guys user catch with wideouts? Seems most of the time, even with an above average spectacular catch, 6'4 WR...when I hold Y, he does nothing. Sometimes he'll just run into the circle and just stand there. I don't understand.
 

NML

Well-Known Member
@bruin228 whats the best thing you've read on Leach's offense?

Michael Lewis's article is one of my favorites reads about him, but it's not entirely offense focused. I have the Oklahoma PB which I enjoy referencing when I forget reads.
 

bruin228

Madden Mobile Addict
NCAA Moderator
@bruin228 whats the best thing you've read on Leach's offense?

Michael Lewis's article is one of my favorites reads about him, but it's not entirely offense focused. I have the Oklahoma PB which I enjoy referencing when I forget reads.
Here's something on the Air Raid in general, which includes a ton of information on his offense and others: http://smartfootball.com/offense/th...-to-holgorsen-and-beyond#sthash.L89UFn1d.dpbs

Here's the most comprehensive read on his offense: https://www.cougcenter.com/air-raid-offense-playbook-mike-leach
 
How do Air raid teams throw so many passes and still keep intercepts down(at least relative to the amount of throws they make)? Does it have to do with the amount of screens they throw which count as throws but have a low risk of being picked. If so what is the ratio you are looking for in terms of screen plays to regular drop back passes.


BTW this guy is really good. He makes things really easy to understand and has a lot of good videos.
 
I believe that's part of it you also have a lot of quick passes snags,sticks,slants that are harder to intercept because they are so timing based. The other reason is because the reads are fairly simple execute and they practice those reads everyday at a high volume that it improves their execution. I'm always looking for screens against pressure or uncovered looks. Ideally at a minimum I want to run at least 1 screen a qtr and I could always run them more.
 
I believe that's part of it you also have a lot of quick passes snags,sticks,slants that are harder to intercept because they are so timing based. The other reason is because the reads are fairly simple execute and they practice those reads everyday at a high volume that it improves their execution. I'm always looking for screens against pressure or uncovered looks. Ideally at a minimum I want to run at least 1 screen a qtr and I could always run them more.
How much does route spacing have to do with it in your opinion if any?
 
On some routes it helps but they also have others where receivers can wind up fairly close together (the meshers on mesh).
What would an air raid team do if they good a really good power back on the team? He is a really strong runner not very fast and limited to average hands.
 
What would an air raid team do if they good a really good power back on the team? He is a really strong runner not very fast and limited to average hands.
For starters let him run wildcat. Hands can be developed. For recent examples of power backs in the Air Raid check out Texas Tech's Desmond Nisby and TCU's Sewo Olonilua highlights.
 
For starters let him run wildcat. Hands can be developed. For recent examples of power backs in the Air Raid check out Texas Tech's Desmond Nisby and TCU's Sewo Olonilua highlights.
Thanks i have some other questions. What concepts does air raid use to score in the redzone but especially in the goal line 10 yrds and in?

How do you use a good TE who can run block and pass? If you have him split out how do you deal with team that put a dime back on him?

Where do you put your best receiver(route running)? I thought putting him at the Y because that is who must of the concepts attack with. Y-sail, cross, shallow, stick, corner, etc. If this correct what if he is also your fastest and best deep ball threat?

Also i see your name is the system and i guess that is tony franklin in your avi. What do you prefer about his system that is different then other Air Raid guys like Leach and Mumme?
 

bruin228

Madden Mobile Addict
NCAA Moderator
Thanks i have some other questions. What concepts does air raid use to score in the redzone but especially in the goal line 10 yrds and in?

How do you use a good TE who can run block and pass? If you have him split out how do you deal with team that put a dime back on him?

Where do you put your best receiver(route running)? I thought putting him at the Y because that is who must of the concepts attack with. Y-sail, cross, shallow, stick, corner, etc. If this correct what if he is also your fastest and best deep ball threat?
Stick and Y Corner, without a doubt. If it's Y Corner out of 2x2, it's double slants on the backside.

Not sure what you're asking, exactly. If he can catch and block, then you're in a good spot. You can keep him in to block on three man concepts if you want (like he is on Stick from Normal HB Wk) but I don't really see the point. 11 personnel sets like Bunch HB Str are great pass sets. If they're putting a dime back on him, no huddle into a set with him inline and then run the ball on them.

I put my fastest guys at H and Y and my bigger guys at X and Z. I agree with you, though. I always have good offenses, but if I have someone special at Y, it really makes the offense pretty much unstoppable so yeah, I would put him there.
 
Stick and Y Corner, without a doubt. If it's Y Corner out of 2x2, it's double slants on the backside.

Not sure what you're asking, exactly. If he can catch and block, then you're in a good spot. You can keep him in to block on three man concepts if you want (like he is on Stick from Normal HB Wk) but I don't really see the point. 11 personnel sets like Bunch HB Str are great pass sets. If they're putting a dime back on him, no huddle into a set with him inline and then run the ball on them.

I put my fastest guys at H and Y and my bigger guys at X and Z. I agree with you, though. I always have good offenses, but if I have someone special at Y, it really makes the offense pretty much unstoppable so yeah, I would put him there.
Thanks for the reply

My question about the TE is hard to explain. For example you have a Gronk/Witten type player who can really block but obviously good in passing game. I see a lot of TE's in air in Y flex position. I guess my thinking is he no longer can utilize his blocking well if he is flexed. So he no longer is a mismatch hybrid player just a slow (really good) Wr. If someone puts a db on him he really has no natural advantage. Even if he blocks the DB the play likely wont get out that far any way unless its a sweep or screen pass.

I was wondering the pros of keeping him flexed vs attaching to the formation.
 

bruin228

Madden Mobile Addict
NCAA Moderator
Thanks for the reply

My question about the TE is hard to explain. For example you have a Gronk/Witten type player who can really block but obviously good in passing game. I see a lot of TE's in air in Y flex position. I guess my thinking is he no longer can utilize his blocking well if he is flexed. So he no longer is a mismatch hybrid player just a slow (really good) Wr. If someone puts a db on him he really has no natural advantage. Even if he blocks the DB the play likely wont get out that far any way unless its a sweep or screen pass.

I was wondering the pros of keeping him flexed vs attaching to the formation.
You're right in that you're probably not going to get very many of the advantages that you may get in real life. I have noticed a difference on screens like you mentioned, so that's nice. Otherwise, if I'm splitting out a TE, it's because that formation has something I like, not necessarily because it'll give me the matchup I want like in real life. Normal Y-Flex (or Y-Slot, can never remember) has some nice stuff, like a play called Slot Choice (I think) which is like how teams run Shallow in real life, with the receiver either running the dig or settling in a soft spot against zone. You also get HB Power, which motions the TE across the formation to block and a PA WR In play that includes that motion and then has him run a shallow back to the other side. There's also stuff like Trey Open Offset, which is great to throw out of, because you get six in the box most of the time since the defense recognizes it as 11 personnel. Also, this doesn't help with your TE stuff, but I like including that formation alongside Bunch/Cluster and using the 4WR formation sub. Then you can get a nice 10 personnel 3x1 offset formation and no huddle into a 10 personnel Bunch set.
 
Thanks i have some other questions. What concepts does air raid use to score in the redzone but especially in the goal line 10 yrds and in?

How do you use a good TE who can run block and pass? If you have him split out how do you deal with team that put a dime back on him?

Where do you put your best receiver(route running)? I thought putting him at the Y because that is who must of the concepts attack with. Y-sail, cross, shallow, stick, corner, etc. If this correct what if he is also your fastest and best deep ball threat?

Also i see your name is the system and i guess that is tony franklin in your avi. What do you prefer about his system that is different then other Air Raid guys like Leach and Mumme?
As far as Red Zone Concepts: I am with Bruin on Stick and Y corner, I will also use Mesh and HB Screen

TE's like Gronk, Gronk was an Air Raid TE in College and they played him everywhere on the line,split out, H Back. I would do the same. If he is a Gronk he's not going to be covered by the 4th best DB and should have a physical mismatch not speed but size.

Best Route runner goes in the Z spot (outside Right Receiver).

As far as the avi, yep that's Tony at Auburn on a PC, figured it was a great Avi for a board about football. I prefer his running game (zone/read option base) and no huddle style (a fast as you can go approach) vs Mumme/Leach. Technically the line splits and pass blocking styles are different IRL.
 

Gooksta

Well-Known Member
Can you be considered an air raid offense if you run the ball more than u pass, but ur passing concepts are primarily air raid concepts?? In your opinion?
 
Would you consider what Andy Reid is doing with the Chiefs this season as an AR offense?

Just curious on your take. Watching the game last night kinda makes me want to tinker around with a pass first offense but admittedly I have little experience in the concepts and formations.
 
I’ve got the itch to play game again and I want to try out some AR stuff. Right now I’m looking at using mostly 10 and 11 groups from the Gun with a few Ace for under center stuff. Any recommendations? @bruin228

I’m thinking about using all Offset Gun because I want to be quick hitting with the runs when I get a light box and they all have good AR fundamental routes that I can see. Stick, Bubble, Smash, etc. I’m only going to have a single run play for the formation audible, so would you recommend the straight dives or can I get away with some traps? I’m mainly thinking in regards to the guards pulling and if it’s worth it to recruit accordingly or just stick with all Pass Pro lineman.
 
Hmm the Trap play is sort of slow developing. I’m tempted to make the only running play in each SG set the Read Option. After running the different sets in practice mode I really like how it feels.

Loving the formation subs too. I’ve got Verts, mid/slip screens, and PA bubbles in a few different sets to round everything out.
 

bruin228

Madden Mobile Addict
NCAA Moderator
I’ve got the itch to play game again and I want to try out some AR stuff. Right now I’m looking at using mostly 10 and 11 groups from the Gun with a few Ace for under center stuff. Any recommendations? @bruin228

I’m thinking about using all Offset Gun because I want to be quick hitting with the runs when I get a light box and they all have good AR fundamental routes that I can see. Stick, Bubble, Smash, etc. I’m only going to have a single run play for the formation audible, so would you recommend the straight dives or can I get away with some traps? I’m mainly thinking in regards to the guards pulling and if it’s worth it to recruit accordingly or just stick with all Pass Pro lineman.
10: Spread Flex, Spread Flex Wk, Tight Slots, Trips, Trips Open, Trey 4WR, Empty Quads

11: Normal HB Wk, Wing Trips Wk or Y-Trips Wk, Empty Spread, Bunch/Cluster, Bunch/Cluster HB Str (I prefer Bunch for both), Trey Open Offset, Normal Y-Flex (whichever one has Y Cross, the other one is better for spread books), one closed trips formation (Trips TE, Trey, offset versions of those, whatever)

Don’t think the offset gun formations offer enough in the passing game to justify themselves outside of Spread Flex, which is the best formation in the game
 
10: Spread Flex, Spread Flex Wk, Tight Slots, Trips, Trips Open, Trey 4WR, Empty Quads

11: Normal HB Wk, Wing Trips Wk or Y-Trips Wk, Empty Spread, Bunch/Cluster, Bunch/Cluster HB Str (I prefer Bunch for both), Trey Open Offset, Normal Y-Flex (whichever one has Y Cross, the other one is better for spread books), one closed trips formation (Trips TE, Trey, offset versions of those, whatever)

Don’t think the offset gun formations offer enough in the passing game to justify themselves outside of Spread Flex, which is the best formation in the game
Spread Flex is super nice. No Trios?

Also, personnel. I was thinking of trying to assemble a variety of WR types, or is it better just to recruit BPA and run with it?
 

bruin228

Madden Mobile Addict
NCAA Moderator
Spread Flex is super nice. No Trios?

Also, personnel. I was thinking of trying to assemble a variety of WR types, or is it better just to recruit BPA and run with it?
Trio 4WR is okay, but not really worth more than the other 3x1 formations in my opinion. Don’t care for Trio 4WR Str at all, but I emphasize passing game over all in pretty much every formation.

H and Y guys I like to be fast considering they’re running the most YAC routes (shallows, sticks, bubbles, other stuff in space) and jet sweeps if you use those.

X and Z guys I like to be tall and good jumpers (more for the purposes of realism than in game - I don’t get the impression it matters a ton). High release guys should be here unless every other attribute screams slot guy and you want good route runners as well, though that’s advice that mostly applies if you’re playing other users; those guys usually get the best man beaters and it’s obviously better to have the best route runners available to overcome good man corners and man mirroring).

BPA is certainly a good approach too, though, especially considering you could make the same case about YAC for X and Z if you run a lot of Smash, Z/X Shallow, mid screens, etc.
 
Trio 4WR is okay, but not really worth more than the other 3x1 formations in my opinion. Don’t care for Trio 4WR Str at all, but I emphasize passing game over all in pretty much every formation.

H and Y guys I like to be fast considering they’re running the most YAC routes (shallows, sticks, bubbles, other stuff in space) and jet sweeps if you use those.

X and Z guys I like to be tall and good jumpers (more for the purposes of realism than in game - I don’t get the impression it matters a ton). High release guys should be here unless every other attribute screams slot guy and you want good route runners as well, though that’s advice that mostly applies if you’re playing other users; those guys usually get the best man beaters and it’s obviously better to have the best route runners available to overcome good man corners and man mirroring).

BPA is certainly a good approach too, though, especially considering you could make the same case about YAC for X and Z if you run a lot of Smash, Z/X Shallow, mid screens, etc.
I’m a stickler for realism myself, so I get it. I didn’t put any Jets in the playbook just because I’ve never had great success with them personally. The blocking is hit or miss most times for me. I’ll make up for it with screens. Do you flip formations or have different sets for each side of the field? I read somewhere that Leach doesn’t flip plays so I was planning on having sets to use on the hashes or middle, etc.

I’ll need to look at the built in formation subs but I’m sure they have where you can move slot guys outside and vice versa, swap X/Z sides, etc to target specific guys on specific plays

Thanks for the tips. I’m gonna be working on getting the playbook set up over the next few days (Finals first fml) and then getting a dynasty up and running.

Since I’m a glutton for punishment I was considering taking the mighty AF Blue Falcons and turning them into a Raid team for yuks and also so I can get a real appreciation for the offense once I have personnel to run it lol
 

bruin228

Madden Mobile Addict
NCAA Moderator
I’m a stickler for realism myself, so I get it. I didn’t put any Jets in the playbook just because I’ve never had great success with them personally. The blocking is hit or miss most times for me. I’ll make up for it with screens. Do you flip formations or have different sets for each side of the field? I read somewhere that Leach doesn’t flip plays so I was planning on having sets to use on the hashes or middle, etc.

I’ll need to look at the built in formation subs but I’m sure they have where you can move slot guys outside and vice versa, swap X/Z sides, etc to target specific guys on specific plays

Thanks for the tips. I’m gonna be working on getting the playbook set up over the next few days (Finals first fml) and then getting a dynasty up and running.

Since I’m a glutton for punishment I was considering taking the mighty AF Blue Falcons and turning them into a Raid team for yuks and also so I can get a real appreciation for the offense once I have personnel to run it lol
I’ll flip the Bunch sets, but I mostly don’t flip. Not even necessarily because of an certain reason, mostly just because of habit and pace.

I don’t mess with the formation subs too much outside of Spell HB, but one grouping that I do like is using the 4WR package in Trey Open Offset or Normal Y-Slot and going no huddle from that to things like Empty Spread or a Bunch set. One way to get some different 10 personnel sets on the field.

I’ve always wanted to run the raid at Air Force haha, I think it would be a good fit
 
I’ll flip the Bunch sets, but I mostly don’t flip. Not even necessarily because of an certain reason, mostly just because of habit and pace.

I don’t mess with the formation subs too much outside of Spell HB, but one grouping that I do like is using the 4WR package in Trey Open Offset or Normal Y-Slot and going no huddle from that to things like Empty Spread or a Bunch set. One way to get some different 10 personnel sets on the field.

I’ve always wanted to run the raid at Air Force haha, I think it would be a good fit
Dude, with the slick lightning bolts on the helmet? You’re telling me. Falcons are ready for liftoff haha

But ughhh it’s going to be so rough the first few years. Complete overhaul.
 
Last Q.

I’m pretty sure I have this correct, but I wanna double check anyway. When setting the depth chart: WR1 is the X, WR2 the Z, WR3 the Y, WR4 the H?

And as far as O-line goes, straight pass blockers across the board or does it not really matter as much?
 

bruin228

Madden Mobile Addict
NCAA Moderator
Last Q.

I’m pretty sure I have this correct, but I wanna double check anyway. When setting the depth chart: WR1 is the X, WR2 the Z, WR3 the Y, WR4 the H?

And as far as O-line goes, straight pass blockers across the board or does it not really matter as much?
Yes.

I go for pass blockers, but you may want to get balanced guys at guard if you’re going to pull them on Power or Buck Sweep.
 
Yes.

I go for pass blockers, but you may want to get balanced guys at guard if you’re going to pull them on Power or Buck Sweep.
Yeah I’m not so sure I’m going to implement that as much. It sounded good in theory, but I don’t think it’s worth giving up a better pass blocker just so I can run occasionally. No need to get fancy.

Have you had any success marrying R&S concepts with the Air Raid?
 

bruin228

Madden Mobile Addict
NCAA Moderator
Yeah I’m not so sure I’m going to implement that as much. It sounded good in theory, but I don’t think it’s worth giving up a better pass blocker just so I can run occasionally. No need to get fancy.

Have you had any success marrying R&S concepts with the Air Raid?
Not really, but I’m not sure how much I’ve tried. Switch is pretty much the only RNS concept I run. I read about some guy in DII or something that had a raid/RNS offense that he ran out of the pistol a while ago, but I don’t remember looking into it too much.
 
Not really, but I’m not sure how much I’ve tried. Switch is pretty much the only RNS concept I run. I read about some guy in DII or something that had a raid/RNS offense that he ran out of the pistol a while ago, but I don’t remember looking into it too much.
Yeah I saw some Switch stuff while going thru forms earlier so I was curious. I did practice mode with AF earlier just for fun and they weren’t nearly as terrible as I thought they’d be lol
 
Been labbing some more and I like how things are started to come together. It might be just the sliders I’m using but damn, THP makes a hell of a difference. Some throws are dead on and others are not even close and dead armed af.

Do you use this website’s set? I found some Heisman ones on OS with QBA at 5 but I haven’t actually played the CPU yet outside practice mode. Might get my ass beat lol
 
Last edited:

bruin228

Madden Mobile Addict
NCAA Moderator
Been labbing some more and I like how things are started to come together. It might be just the sliders I’m using but damn, THP makes a hell of a difference. Some throws are dead on and others are not even close and dead armed af.

Do you use this website’s set? I found some Heisman ones on OS with QBA at 5 but I haven’t actually played the CPU yet outside practice mode. Might get my ass beat lol
I use Jarrod21’s black set
 

Soonerfan09

Well-Known Member
Been labbing some more and I like how things are started to come together. It might be just the sliders I’m using but damn, THP makes a hell of a difference. Some throws are dead on and others are not even close and dead armed af.

Do you use this website’s set? I found some Heisman ones on OS with QBA at 5 but I haven’t actually played the CPU yet outside practice mode. Might get my ass beat lol
I use JKitts Heisman slider at OS (I believe they are QB ACC at 5) and they are challenging, but passing is definitely possible. I have a 97 ovr SR QB with 93 THP and 92 THA and he is much less accurate than my SO 88 ovr QB with 87ish THP and 83 THA. If you have an inaccurate QB, don’t dismiss your other QBs just because of their ratings.
 
I use JKitts Heisman slider at OS (I believe they are QB ACC at 5) and they are challenging, but passing is definitely possible. I have a 97 ovr SR QB with 93 THP and 92 THA and he is much less accurate than my SO 88 ovr QB with 87ish THP and 83 THA. If you have an inaccurate QB, don’t dismiss your other QBs just because of their ratings.
Those are the ones I’m running right now. Kinda hate that someone with lesser ratings would be a better passer, but whatever. I was running a practice mode with Okie State figuring they’d give me good feel of how the offense is “supposed” to play, but the starting QB was garbage and I ended up swapping for the guy with higher THP and had better results. I think that may be the criteria I’ll need to consider going forward.
 

Soonerfan09

Well-Known Member
Those are the ones I’m running right now. Kinda hate that someone with lesser ratings would be a better passer, but whatever. I was running a practice mode with Okie State figuring they’d give me good feel of how the offense is “supposed” to play, but the starting QB was garbage and I ended up swapping for the guy with higher THP and had better results. I think that may be the criteria I’ll need to consider going forward.
I’m not sure how much AWR or even your offensive style matters, but I could see it being a factor. I chalk the younger QB being better due to INTANGIBLES (@Travis7401). The slider play pretty well overall aside from users getting too many sacks. The CPU definitely isn’t an easy out. I’m in an online league though, so I’m not sure if that matters.