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Employees vs. Student-Athletes

GuyIncognito

pressure cooker full of skittles
I'm sure this has been mentioned, but it's a big issue that I think deserves its own thread.

Here's my take at the moment:

Burn, baby, burn: The death throes of the NCAA and the lies for which it stands.

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This week brought us two seemingly separate stories from the world of college football that have everything to do with one another. First, the potential game-changer: the Chicago branch of the National Labor Relations Board found that the football players of Northwestern qualify as “employees” under the terms of the National Labor Relations Act, which clears a hurdle to their unionization, ushering in the specter of collective bargaining. The NCAA, over the unmistakable sound of Mark Emmert hyperventilating into a paper bag, immediately screeched its disapproval, insisting that college athletes are students rather than employees.

Unfortunately for the NCAA, its wailing was also insufficient to drown out the revelation of yet another academic scandal, this time (and once again) at the African and African-American Studies department of the University of North Carolina and its …err, cozy… relationship with the university’s football and basketball athletes. A Tar Heel’s admittedly coherent (though that’s not hard to achieve in a single paragraph) retelling of the Wikipedia entry for Rosa Parks’ refusal to give up her bus seat apparently received an A- as a final examination. Not the best timing for that whole ‘players are students first’ argument. And if you think that this is a North Carolina problem and not an “almost every school in the NCAA” problem, I have a bridge to sell you.

We can set the “employee” designation aside for a bit, but can’t we now agree that this entire “amateur student-athlete” thing is an outright farce? Is there anyone in America who still can’t see this racket for what it is who isn’t also on the NCAA’s payroll?

When the most hated corporation in America walks into a courtroom and says with a straight face that the virtual University of Florida’s white quarterback, who wears number 15, stands 6’3, weighs 235 pounds, throws left-handed, and grew up in Florida is not in any way intended to represent the real University of Florida’s white quarterback Tim Tebow, who wore number 15, stands 6’3, weighs 235 pounds, throws left-handed, and grew up in Florida, is there even an inkling in your mind that it’s anything but an avalanche of nonsense?

Were you to have walked into the University of Oklahoma’s bookstore in 2006 and seen the clothing racks covered with #28 jerseys, is there a single person that would be persuaded for one second that the university, the NCAA, and its apparel providers weren’t exploiting Adrian Peterson’s likeness?

I can hear you now: “OK, so it’s laughably disingenuous. We all know that. But the players get free tuition, hero status around campus (and maybe the country), and that’s enough. So what?”

But if there is nothing wrong with that deception, then what’s the point in maintaining it? If what the NCAA, schools, TV networks, advertisers, and corporate partners are up to here isn’t immoral, then why do they take such great pains to insist they’re doing anything else? And why do we insist on collectively letting them shovel it down our throats? If you want to argue that all of this is morally defensible, be my guest, but at least have the huevos to acknowledge that this entire infrastructure is presented behind the most ridiculous façade imaginable, and acknowledge that by continuing to pretend it’s anything else we’re helping to perpetuate it. If we all know the truth, then who exactly are we humoring by agreeing to pretend otherwise?

Every time you watch some corporate-sponsored bowl game only to be forced to listen to the CEO of Soylent Corp. discuss how much he loves watching those nutritious youngsters play, don’t you wonder how much that sponsorship cost them? When you hear about the new quintillion dollar SEC TV deal, don’t you wonder where the money goes? Don’t you wonder what the hell Mark Emmert does that’s worth $1.7 million a year?

I played this game for two athletically-challenged, injury-filled seasons. That doesn’t exactly recommend me as the world’s foremost authority on college football, but it does mean that I know that the NCAA’s 20 hour a week limit is actually more like 60. I know that voluntary workouts aren’t voluntary. I know how well-intentioned tutors, advisors, and even professors can be starstruck (or, just as often, guilt-tripped) into greasing the academic wheels of the institution to keep guys eligible and on track (though I also know that many such people resent athletes and hold their status against them as well). But most of all I know how a bunch of great, talented kids who have been exploited their entire lives, many of whom can barely read or write, are being cheated by this charade, which we all tacitly agree to suspend our disbelief about.

So what can we do? There are obvious solutions to the problem that are foreclosed from discussion simply for the sake of maintaining this ridiculous narrative:

Even while acknowledging that a lot of the NCAA’s pleadings of poverty are unadulterated nonsense, it would be very easy to allow players to receive a cut of their worth without raiding university athletic budgets simply by repealing the rules that forbid athletes from earning endorsements and third party gifts. Nobody thinks Peyton Manning showing up in a Papa John’s commercial threatens the integrity of the NFL, why should it be any different for college players? Admittedly that leaves less talented players relatively out in the cold, but no worse than they are currently. And the simple fact of the matter is that the guy who is worth tens of millions to the university has a better claim on that cash than the scout teamer nobody pays to see.

And is there really that great a distinction between Phil Knight and T. Boone Pickens buying things like this and just flat out paying the players? Is there a difference between Nick Saban walking into a kid’s house and promising him NFL millions and walking into his house with actual money? You may say that such a change would put the rich programs at an advantage, but you’d have a hard time arguing that isn’t already the case. You could also argue that such a system would allow bad actors to influence outcomes, but as a Miami Hurricane I would submit to you that it’s the black market for player compensation that lures the scumbags out of their holes. Tainted money is much more attractive in a system where legitimate money is forbidden.

Another solution would be for the NFL to develop its own farm league, and to offer tuition guarantees to high school signees so they would be free to pursue their NFL careers with the safety net of a free college education if the whole thing falls apart (or during the off season). If we’re really concerned about the academic interests of these kids, and not just using that as an excuse to maintain this corrupt system, then this model makes a lot more sense. In the current system, a kid who walks on campus and tears his ACL may not only lose his football career, but jeopardizes his scholarship as well. That wouldn’t be the case in a farm system that guaranteed tuition independent of athletic performance.

Obviously the NFL is disinclined to start paying for a farm system it’s always gotten for free, but it sure seems like the NFL might be in need of some goodwill these days, and that would be a great start. And, as unbelievable as it sounds, the specter of collective bargaining in NCAA football really could be a death knell to the game and the NFL would obviously be compelled to fill the gap. Baseball, hockey, and soccer have gotten this model to work just fine, there’s no reason the NFL couldn’t do the same and, in doing so, decouple the farcically unnecessary forced pairing of “academic scholar” and “professional athlete.” What does getting a liberal arts degree have to do with playing football or basketball, again?

Are NCAA athletes employees? I guess we’ll have to wait for the courts to tell us. But regardless of the answer to that question, this farce has gone on long enough. Whether through continued litigation and collective bargaining or through some massive moral awakening in the market, something has to change. We’ve all had our fun with this pleasant little fiction; it’s time to stop pretending and finally acknowledge the damage it’s doing. We wouldn’t be shamelessly lying to ourselves and to each other if the truth wasn’t hurting anyone.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/04/03/b...d-the-lies-for-which-it-stands/#ixzz2xqIUovxQ
 

kella

Low IQ fat ass with depression and anxiety
Staff member
Administrator
Operations
To me, the only people really opposed to this, to me, are (usually white, usually privileged, usually at least somewhat educated) people who are really just jealous that these guys might go to college, play a sport, be famous, be popular, AND get paid. Their logic has little to do with whether or not the players deserve the compensation.
 

Bmack

IRREGULAR HUMAN USER
Mod Alumni
Kella got this again bro.

boils down to " I used to do what they do, I enjoyed doing it, I would kill to still be doing it, I'd do it for free."
 

kella

Low IQ fat ass with depression and anxiety
Staff member
Administrator
Operations
Kella got this again bro.

boils down to " I used to do what they do, I enjoyed doing it, I would kill to still be doing it, I'd do it for free."

Yeah, this logic slays me :laughing:
 

Bmack

IRREGULAR HUMAN USER
Mod Alumni
And that applies to people who get offended at pro athletes salaries as well.
 

kella

Low IQ fat ass with depression and anxiety
Staff member
Administrator
Operations
Ok so you'd go back to college, but instead of partying, sleeping in, dicking around, having entirely free weekends, etc., you'd spend all of that time on football and you'd do it for no compensation? :thumbsup:
 

GuyIncognito

pressure cooker full of skittles
Ok so you'd go back to college, but instead of partying, sleeping in, dicking around, having entirely free weekends, etc., you'd spend all of that time on football and you'd do it for no compensation? :thumbsup:

Haha yeah, here's the irony of that argument for me: I was a crappy walk on. In other words, I'm the guy who DID give up a normal college experience to get my head caved in every day and go through those horrid workouts in the Miami summer and spend 60 hours a week on football with no hope of an NFL future.

So that's why I think I have some license to ridicule that viewpoint, because I understand that in a compensation model I still get left out in the cold. But so what? Nobody is paying to see me play. If you're a weirdo and want to go through all that for free, you're welcome to.

If Johnny Manziel wants money, frat boy douchebag can say "just be happy to play fucker." But if I want Johnny Manziel to have money, they can't float that argument with me because I'm not trying to get *myself* paid.
 

DeadMan

aka spiker or DeadMong
I pretty sure the only way college football (and maybe basketball) survives past the next decade or so is if they allow players to be compensated from sources outside of the schools. The schools can't do it without either violating Title IX or paying every athlete on campus. It's not going to happen. I think they could shift to an olympics style system and still survive. The NCAA, though, would have to release its death grip on the money that is pouring into it through football or the tournament. I doubt that they will give up on that so easily. Now, if the alternative is complete destruction, maybe they'll loosen their grip. I don't know though.
 

GuyIncognito

pressure cooker full of skittles
I agree. As I said in the article, the simplest solution of all is to take the NCAA rules against third party player compensation and just erase them.

I get that there are a lot of athletic budgets that couldn't bear the strain of paying athletes (especially if Title IX is found to apply). I also know damn well that the compensation they'd offer would be FAR less than the players' likenesses are worth on the open market.

So just get rid of the rules. Why is it OK for Peyton Manning to get paid to be in Sprint commercials but some egregious sin for Jameis Winston to do the same? Why can't Phil Knight just sign the whole fucking Oregon team to Nike deals?

Who cares? I really think it's more about jealousy than anything, getting back to kella's point. Some kind of Puritan belief that these young (cough... black... cough) punks shouldn't be so wealthy so young because they somehow haven't "earned" it yet.
 

DeadMan

aka spiker or DeadMong
Who cares? I really think it's more about jealousy than anything, getting back to kella's point. Some kind of Puritan belief that these young (cough... black... cough) punks shouldn't be so wealthy so young because they somehow haven't "earned" it yet.

I was reading an article, I think it was Grantland, that made the point that amateurism started as a way to get those low class people to stop beating the upper classes at sports. And, really, you can look at it the exact same way now. In America, race and class are very related, so you have a whole race angle to this, too.

Also, I don't believe I finished the Grantland article. Too long. :laughing:
 
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worst2first

Well-Known Member
Since I support everyone's right to organize and form a union it should come as no surprise that I wholeheartedly support the players. Right now, they're operating under one-way contracts that give them almost no rights when compared to the universities.
 

Renegade

Charge on!
As a collective bargaining attorney, I hope this gets upheld by the full NLRB. All sorts of job opportunities as a result.
 

atlbraves

Well-Known Member
The crazy thing is that if the NCAA just threw the players a bone at some point in the last 10 years, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. It would take so little (relative to what they probably deserve) to placate the players, and the NCAA refused to give an inch. The NCAA will never pay players, which is fine because one day we won't need the NCAA anymore. Hopefully soon.
 

GuyIncognito

pressure cooker full of skittles
The crazy thing is that if the NCAA just threw the players a bone at some point in the last 10 years, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. It would take so little (relative to what they probably deserve) to placate the players, and the NCAA refused to give an inch. The NCAA will never pay players, which is fine because one day we won't need the NCAA anymore. Hopefully soon.

Haha, this is an argument I find myself making in all types of discussions these days. For instance, if the GOP had decided 5 years ago "well we don't want to legalize gay marriage, so what we need to do is get the government out of marriage," they would have been hailed as forward thinking compromisers and the issue may have died. Instead they insisted on fighting to the last man and that means that when they lose, they're not going to get to bargain for any conditions at all. It will be unconditional surrender.

I think that's where the NCAA is headed too, I agree with you. They'll try and stick to their guns until they literally can't anymore, and then they'll offer some insulting placation a couple years after they've lost all leverage to bargain with.
 

Reel

Off dem Milds and dat Yak
Community Liaison
One thing that bothers me is how they are trying to make sure everyone is equal. We dont live in that world. The QB on the team is in all likelihood the most popular player on the roster, so letting him sign autographs or get paid to appear in commercials shouldnt be an issue. Someone is always going to feel things arent fair, but you are worth what someone is willing to pay you and you have to be ok with that.

If they really wanna control stuff, just put a cap on how much the player can make at said autograph signing or public appearance. Or here's an idea, let them get compensated for their likeness. You wanna advertise the big showdown with Manziel vs. Clowney? Pay them. We will quickly see stations revert back to just showing the school logos.

I just want another CH2k hoops game tbh.
 

Renegade

Charge on!
One thing that bothers me is how they are trying to make sure everyone is equal. We dont live in that world. The QB on the team is in all likelihood the most popular player on the roster, so letting him sign autographs or get paid to appear in commercials shouldnt be an issue. Someone is always going to feel things arent fair, but you are worth what someone is willing to pay you and you have to be ok with that.

If they really wanna control stuff, just put a cap on how much the player can make at said autograph signing or public appearance. Or here's an idea, let them get compensated for their likeness. You wanna advertise the big showdown with Manziel vs. Clowney? Pay them. We will quickly see stations revert back to just showing the school logos.

I just want another CH2k hoops game tbh.

I really don't think it's about one player getting paid more than another, or even the amateurism stuff like selling signatures and stuff. If there's a spending stipend that lets the players have a little spending money to be normal, then that will cut down on a lot of the amateurism violations, because the need won't be there at the same level.

The big thing is stuff like guaranteed scholarships, not losing a scholarship because you're injured, and good medical treatment during and after school. Basically the players are saying that they have to commit to the school and are punished if they transfer, but the school doesn't commit to them. I think that's fair, and the NCAA should have used a token amount of its huge revenues to fund programs that benefit the players.
 

GuyIncognito

pressure cooker full of skittles
Yeah, I would be a bit worried about a CBA model versus a free market model because it's really easy to use the arbitrary union powers granted by the government to essentially choke an industry to death.

If they go full blown players union, I expect it to be the end of the NCAA as we know it. There are wideranging ramifications to that that haven't been even remotely explored. Can the school's crew team unionize too then? And if so are they part of the same CBA as the football players or is every one going to be a different union even though they all work for the same company?

I would much prefer the NCAA head all this off on its own by A) repealing third party compensation rules, and B) forcing member institutions to guarantee scholarships for four years regardless of performance (or even participation).

Like ATL said, those two changes would probably be enough to put this thing to bed, but the NCAA is too obstinate to do it.
 

atlbraves

Well-Known Member
I think that's where the NCAA is headed too, I agree with you. They'll try and stick to their guns until they literally can't anymore, and then they'll offer some insulting placation a couple years after they've lost all leverage to bargain with.

It's probably a blessing in disguise that we are going down this road, because the downfall of the NCAA and the "student athlete" model will be rapidly accelerated. The NCAA could have given the athletes the most meager stipend imaginable, and taken away all their leverage (at least in the public eye) for a few more years. "You already get a full scholarship, plus the stipend, now you want more? GTFO!" Now the decision won't be made on the NCAA's terms, which is good news for everyone.
 

doh

THANK YOU Dermott McHeshi
I pretty sure the only way college football (and maybe basketball) survives past the next decade or so is if they allow players to be compensated from sources outside of the schools. The schools can't do it without either violating Title IX or paying every athlete on campus. It's not going to happen. I think they could shift to an olympics style system and still survive. The NCAA, though, would have to release its death grip on the money that is pouring into it through football or the tournament. I doubt that they will give up on that so easily. Now, if the alternative is complete destruction, maybe they'll loosen their grip. I don't know though.
100% truth. The only way the NCAA stays afloat is if third parties pay the players. Title IX will ruin what really should happen… players in FBall and maybe MBB get paid by schools. It's pathetic too because the only reason most Title IX sports are funded is football. If it wasn't for football, most of those sports wouldn't exist. I don't think 90% of schools could afford to pay (or would in turn have to significantly lower sport budgets or even cut sports altogether) because of the olympic sports on campus.

I've always thought that if someone wants to cut a deal with a local car dealership he should be able to. A Braxton Miller deserves to get more than a 3rd string DL and that way would be through endorsements.

I disagree (in most cases) about the jersey and video game argument in regards to individual players. Most of the time people buy a jersey of a school for the school not the player. There are guys like Johnny Fooseball or Reggie Bush that people want to buy a Reggie Bush jersey instead of a USC jersey. IMO it should be like professional leagues where you can a) sign up with the union and get even money for the likeness rights with everyone else or b) be like Barry Bonds and be able to sell what you want but not sell off your likeness.
 

atlbraves

Well-Known Member
Title IX is a red herring. It has never been evaluated under the parameters of paying players, because player compensation has been fixed at $0.00 up to this point.
 

DeadMan

aka spiker or DeadMong
Title IX is a red herring. It has never been evaluated under the parameters of paying players, because player compensation has been fixed at $0.00 up to this point.

That second half may be true, but there's no way a school will ever compensate men without also compensating women. Even if Title IX doesn't require that, they won't want to risk the lawsuit.
 

GuyIncognito

pressure cooker full of skittles
Even if Title IX doesn't apply, and it's not so clear to me that it doesn't (you sure as SHIT aren't going to end up with a system where men's basketball and football players are the only ones being compensated), the amount that most athletic departments would have to spare is so far from the amount the players could earn on the free market that it just seems doomed from the start.

I mean on that model you MIGHT be talking $1,500 a month as a "stipend." On a free market model you're talking millions for some of these guys.

There is no way for a school-paid model to even get in the universe of appropriate compensation. Just repeal the rules! The money is out there. These companies and individuals would HAPPILY hand it over. And it wouldn't cost the athletic departments a dime. Nor would it invite any kind of discrimination litigation.

Hell, I'd go so far as to say it would be a boon for women's sports, as a lot of corporate sponsors and people have a conscience that puts a premium on feel good stories even if it doesn't make economic sense. Why do the NBA and ESPN subsidize the WNBA? Because it's a cash cow? No, because they like the PR boost and (setting my cynicism aside for a moment) because they think women athletes should be rewarded for their efforts independent of the revenue those efforts generate.
 

BasinBictory

OUT with the GOUT
I was reading an article, I think it was Grantland, that made the point that amateurism started as a way to get those low class people to stop beating the upper classes at sports. And, really, you can look at it the exact same way now. In America, race and class are very related, so you have a whole race angle to this, too.

This. I do think a lot of this has roots in class warfare. In The Ball Is Round, it talks about how originally, soccer clubs were gentleman's country clubs getting together for friendly tournaments where all the players involved were generally well off, and so compensation for games was not even really thought of at first. Then, as the competition grew fiercer and the benefits of winning became more coveted, teams would hire ringers who weren't always strictly country club members and were paid under the table or in other ways besides cutting them an outright check. Such behavior was considered scandalous at the time, much the way the NCAA looks at student-athletes getting paid today.

Eventually the system evolved to full-blown professionalism as we know it today.

Also, check out this article:http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/bruce-feldman/24509385/former-usc-fullback-pushing-for-walk-on-reforms?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
 

Renegade

Charge on!
Obama, as the CBB fan that he is, should come out with a bill proposal that would codify many of the players' concerns and require the NCAA to provide certain benefits, recognize the NCAA (or create a successor) as the official sponsor of college sports with real regulatory, legal, and investigatory powers, provide an antitrust exemption so the NCAA can take back the TV rights, and deal with the NLRA to allow for some sort of player union made up of all the athletes from all the schools to deal with the NCAA, but, as part of the antitrust exemption, allowing the NCAA to set a stipend wage for athletes that varies by sport and time required to participate in the sport.
 

MtneerManiac

Burning Couches
if they're going to pay players there has to be some sort of salary cap type of deal. otherwise it's just going to be fucking stupid with certain schools just buying fucking everyone. RIP the sport if that happens.
 

GuyIncognito

pressure cooker full of skittles
I'd hate for the same big time programs to get all the good recruits every year.

I think as long as you leave the scholarship limits in place, there's no reason to believe the talent distribution would be affected. If anything, I would guess that it would actually benefit small programs that put a higher value on good-not great players than the big programs do.

It would allow smaller programs to focus their resources and steal players that are low priorities for bigger programs. Generic 4 Star RB is worth a lot more to TCU than he is to Texas, and I think the market would reflect that.
 

MtneerManiac

Burning Couches
Doesn't Texas have more money than TCU could ever dream of having?

If there wasn't some sort of cap, couldn't Texas just outbid anyone they're remotely interested in having on the team (yes, I'm assuming scholarship limits are still in place)?

But more to the point of what you said: a salary cap would help disperse the talent to more than just the big schools, would it not? Seems beneficial to the overall product IMO (and just about anyone else who's not a fan of one of the 10 or so elite programs).
 

GuyIncognito

pressure cooker full of skittles
Just so we're clear, Oregon and Oklahoma State are already doing exactly what you're worried about: they're substituting huge, bare wealth transfers in place of things like tradition and prestige.

The only difference between a free market system and the current one is that in the current system that money goes into the athletic department and in a free system it gets split with the players.
 

bjc

Butt Naked Wonda
Yeah but Oregon gon' Oregon and Okie State gon' Okie State so it doesn't matter. :Winking:


Not sure I've ever heard of a good argument against paying players. I always get the "when I was in college I had to do this, that, and that.." or "these guys don't deserve it!!"

Those quotes from the OkSt board I posted in the college football offseason thread pretty much sum up a lot of the "arguments" I've heard/read about.
 

GuyIncognito

pressure cooker full of skittles
Doesn't Texas have more money than TCU could ever dream of having?

Sure. But it's a question of subjective value. Texas still only gets 25. Why does a kid go to TCU instead of Texas now? Mostly because they don't get offers from Texas, or because they worry they won't play at Texas, or because they're local and they don't want to leave home. All of those factors would still be present, pay or no pay.

Texas has a lot of money to throw around, but if you think they're going to be handing six figures to every potential recruit, I think you may be overestimating the amount of wealth available.

Texas gets anybody it wants in the current system, and it will get anybody it wants in a free market system. Texas and SMU/TCU/Houston/Rice/UTEP ain't competing for the same kids now, and they won't be in my system.

Insofar as Texas IS competing with schools like OU/LSU/Alabama/Tech/aTm/OSU for kids, those aren't exactly poverty-stricken programs that can't afford an arms race.

But more to the point of what you said: a salary cap would help disperse the talent to more than just the big schools, would it not? Seems beneficial to the overall product IMO (and just about anyone else who's not a fan of one of the 10 or so elite programs).

I'm comparing my preferred system to the system we have in place now (with very little parity across 120 programs), not to some ideal with greater parity between programs. That's more of a personal preference. I personally don't much care for parity. I like having evil empires and underdogs and upstarts and things like that. I think teams like FSU and Miami rising from nothing to become dominant and then getting knocked off their perch is one of the more fun aspects of CFB, especially as against leagues like the NFL where it's just a freakin crapshoot every year.
 

MtneerManiac

Burning Couches
I don't mind paying players, but I just feel like we can have a better system than "players get nothing" or "schools throw as much money as they want at players".

To me, a great system would be for there to be (like in professional sports) a salary cap for each team. This also means that, most likely, the "BCS" schools would probably need to break away and form their own division since it'd be unreasonable to expect a team like North Texas to meet the cap that BCS schools can get. Let's be honest, having a 60-some team division would be way more entertaining than the cupcake games we get now at times.

The schools would have that salary to disperse among their players, so there's one form of payment. Schools could also provide things like scholarship guarantees even in the face of injury, as well as the NCAA (or whatever governing body there would be) mandating that a large majority of money taken in must be pooled back into the football program for things like facilities for the players, travel, food, cutting edge housing, training, etc. Basically instead of these old fucks lining their coffers, the money is flowing back into the programs and being directly used on the kids and things they need and use.

There's also plenty of ways you can pay players outside of straight cash as well, such as the athletic department keeping a fund that will help with sports-related medical costs that current and former (i.e. graduated - like knee replacement surgery later in life?) players can utilize when they need it.

That's just stuff I spitballed, but I hope you can get the gist of what I'm trying to say. I just don't want to see the sport turned into some sort of Scrooge McDuck cash throwing competition.
 

GuyIncognito

pressure cooker full of skittles
I don't mind paying players, but I just feel like we can have a better system than "players get nothing" or "schools throw as much money as they want at players".

Slight correction. My system is designed specifically to AVOID the schools throwing money at players. The schools can't afford what the players are worth, and it implicates all kinds of sticky legal issues for the schools themselves to start paying players.

To me, a great system would be for there to be (like in professional sports) a salary cap for each team. This also means that, most likely, the "BCS" schools would probably need to break away and form their own division since it'd be unreasonable to expect a team like North Texas to meet the cap that BCS schools can get. Let's be honest, having a 60-some team division would be way more entertaining than the cupcake games we get now at times.

I find it slightly ironic that your argument against a cap-free system is that it will lead to separating the big rich schools from the small ones, and then your solution to the problem is to explicitly separate the big rich schools from the small ones ;)

Question: if we're going to officially stratify CFB that way, then why do you need the salary cap? I thought the idea behind the salary cap was to keep the apples and oranges in some form of equilibrium, but you're explicitly separating them into their respective groups to begin with.

The schools would have that salary to disperse among their players, so there's one form of payment. Schools could also provide things like scholarship guarantees even in the face of injury, as well as the NCAA (or whatever governing body there would be) mandating that a large majority of money taken in must be pooled back into the football program for things like facilities for the players, travel, food, cutting edge housing, training, etc. Basically instead of these old fucks lining their coffers, the money is flowing back into the programs and being directly used on the kids and things they need and use.

The problem is that most of that football money now isn't going into the boosters' coffers, it's going to float the rest of the athletic department so they can maintain sports that are net losers (i.e. every other sport aside from football and [occasionally] men's basketball).

That's why I want to steer clear of systems that draw money out of the operating budgets of the athletic departments. It's a quagmire.

And it's an unnecessary one at that: there is PLENTY of money that its owners would more than happily put into this system if they were allowed to without taking a dime away from the athletic departments (and thus the non-revenue sports).

There's also plenty of ways you can pay players outside of straight cash as well, such as the athletic department keeping a fund that will help with sports-related medical costs that current and former (i.e. graduated - like knee replacement surgery later in life?) players can utilize when they need it.

I like that idea, although I imagine the expense would be enormous. FWIW, they do cover current players now. Miami paid all of my medical bills.

But what you're thinking is basically like school-backed insurance programs for future costs? I'm all for that. And the more they find out about CTE and the more aware people become of the problems that these guys face later in life, the more I think we're headed there.

I just don't want to see the sport turned into some sort of Scrooge McDuck cash throwing competition.

I get the impulse behind what you're saying, I would just argue that CFB is already there, and has been for years. The only thing I'm changing is where Scrooge's money lands. Right now it goes to coaches, and TV networks, and advertisers, and athletic departments, and university funds. In my system the guys doing all the work get cut in too.

It's still going to be Alabama and LSU and Ohio State and competing for the title every year, but the players will get theirs too.
 

Packfan

Administrator
Administrator
(CNN) -- The NCAA on Tuesday proposed that athletes receive unlimited meals and snacks, the collegiate sports organization said in a news release.
Member Division I schools could provide their athletes food in addition to the meal plan covered by the student's scholarship if the plan is approved, the release said.
The announcement comes not long after a University of Connecticut star told reporters covering the NCAA tournament that he sometimes goes to bed "starving" because he can't afford food. Shabazz Napier's remarks sparked a new discussion on what benefits athletes should receive. Napier, a senior, is a top NBA prospect.
However, the NCAA has been discussing changes to its meals rules for months.
The decision from the Legislative Council would need to be approved by the Division I board of directors at a meeting on April 24.
"Today we took action to provide meals to student-athletes incidental to participation. I think the end result is right where it needs to be," said council chairwoman Mary Mulvenna.
As of now, NCAA rules say athletes may be provided three meals a day or a food stipend. The new rule would apply to scholarship and nonscholarship athletes
 

bjc

Butt Naked Wonda
"Back when I went to school, I had to pay for my meals. Why should they get free food????"
 

GuyIncognito

pressure cooker full of skittles
I would have starved to death to be on that field one more time!

I lol'd.

That attitude is especially prevalent in places like Oklahoma I've found, relative to Miami where the general attitude was "get paid." Every whiskey tango in this state thinks putting on an OU helmet is the highest human accomplishment (I don't mean that as hyperbole either); it's a lot of fun to witness.
 

bjc

Butt Naked Wonda
I lol'd.

That attitude is especially prevalent in places like Oklahoma I've found, relative to Miami where the general attitude was "get paid." Every whiskey tango in this state thinks putting on an OU helmet is the highest human accomplishment (I don't mean that as hyperbole either); it's a lot of fun to witness.
Yep... Hahahaha.

It's ridiculous. Did you see some of the comments I pulled from the Oklahoma State board in response to the Northwestern labor ruling?
 
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