• Hello Guest. We are upgrading the server's XenForo versions. This has to be done in stages. 1.5.18 ---> 1.5.23 ---> 2.0.0 ---> 2.0.12 ---> 2.1.0. I will likely upgrade each one and leave it for a day or so to see if there's any kinks. When moving from 1.x to 2.x, our add-ons will cease to work. Much of the functionality of said add-ons is now native within XenForo 2.x, so I don't think we'll miss much if anything. IF we are, we can try out new 2.x XF add-ons.

Spread Offense

JSU Zack

How do I IT?
#1


Most of us run the spread in one form or another. Discuss your specific schemes and personnel.

Right now, I'm focusing on a spread offense with pro and air raid influences. I like to count the box and run when given the opportunity. I then stretch the field horizontally with screens, quick outs, and smash. Once the D spreads out, I'll start running the shallow cross and triangle series. I rarely throw the ball deep any more and instead change the tempo and get four-five yards at a time. Eventually, the defense will get impatient, and I'll score.
 

bruin228

Madden Mobile Addict
NCAA Moderator
#2
Here is the old thread, not sure how long it'll stay up: http://utopiacollegesports.com/mybb/showthread.php?tid=203

Running a "power spread" offense right now. 70-80% of it is 11 personnel with some other groupings like 12, 21, and 10. Probably 60-40% offset and 65-35% run pass. Core runs would probably be IZ, OZ, Buck Sweep, and Counter. I'd like my QB to be the 3rd running threat behind my main 2 RBs, maybe 4th if I have a Percy Harvin type player. Passing game is pretty Raid oriented; Scat, Stick, 6s, and Y Corner are probably the staples. Like to mix in screens, PA passes, and some deep shots too.

I am thinking about changing it up though. Thinking about combining Chip Kelly's stuff with Seth Lithrell's (Zona and IU OC). I'm a big fan of Urban Meyer/Dan Mullen too though so not sure what to do.
 

bruin228

Madden Mobile Addict
NCAA Moderator
#4
Yeah, TEs can really be a difference maker (see: Patriots offense). But 4 wide is in my blood so I'm trying to strike a good balance.
 

fonzilla

Well-Known Member
#6
My main goal on offense is to get to 3rd and 4 or less, so I can do or call any play I want. I find that 11 personnel has the most balanced and largest variety of formations in the game. Probably another reason it's so popular.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
#7
Took a little messing around with formatting but the Spread-I 2.0 thread is completely up to date. The Plays/Concepts section had to be broken down to two posts because apparently there is both a max character and max image limit. Still have to update the rest of the thread though, playbook, tempo and putting it all together should close it out.
 

bruin228

Madden Mobile Addict
NCAA Moderator
#8
Yeah, the max media/image thing is a little annoying but if one person is posting all the stuff it looks like the same post anyway.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
#9
Yeah I might need another placeholder just in case.

I love how this forum handles images though, way better than the other one. I was actually able to copy and paste the entire post section by section with formatting included. Then all I had to do was click the image placeholder and insert the URL and I was ready to go.

Very convenient.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
#15
I've decided I need to just start ripping plays out of my playbook. When it comes down to it, I rarely go too deep into the book. Most user games I throw 15 times a game max and probably half are screens. Occasionally I'll sling it around 20-25 times in a user game or get bored and throw 30 times in a CPU game but even then, most of it is the same handful of plays in the same formations.

I hate how big this thing is. Need to worry about more screens and less drop back crap. Did hit one of my combination split screens out of Wing Offset Wk against Best for a TD though. Call Slip Screen away from Twins, hot route the HB to a Wheel and the slot WR to an underneath and read the alley defender to that side. If he widens with the HB, throw the underneath right at the line of scrimmage behind the OL down field. If he stays home, throw the wheel.

Think I hit the same split screen concept for a score against Bruin or Navy except out of Trio 4WR Str and reading the outside CB. If he comes down with the Mid Screen, throw the HB wheel behind him. If he stays outside in the flat, mid screen is there. Don't draw any OPI flags because the ball is out before anyone engages a defender and, generally, the receiver gets the ball within that 2-3 yard cushion.
 

bjc

Butt Naked Wonda
#17
What do you mean by "in?"

You can find Double Posts out of 4 WR Trey. You can run that against Quarters and/or Cover 3. Especially if a user is playing the post-side safety in Quarters or the high safety in C3.
 

bjc

Butt Naked Wonda
#19
I can't remember for sure, but I don't think there are many plays featuring Double Posts.

It's not really that effective anyway, at least not how it should be. It's a great play to run in the red zone combined with PA (IRL).
 

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
#21
Actually found some time to start playing the game again... It's been tough with two jobs! I've gone back to my dual TE spread attack. Played one user so far in an OD and ran the ball very well... lost 24-21 but did some nice things. I got 14 formations and all except two are dual TE's. I do this from under center, pistol and shotgun... I'm liking the feel so far.
 

bruin228

Madden Mobile Addict
NCAA Moderator
#22
Anyone have any reads on Missouri's offense when Christensen and Yost were running it? I scrounged up a couple things but it'd be nice to have more.
 

bruin228

Madden Mobile Addict
NCAA Moderator
#24
Unfortunately, that's one of the ones I've seen. Thanks though.

Here's the other one if anyone's interested: http://highspeedspreadfootball.blogspot.com/2012/06/missouris-coach-yost.html

Scrolling through brophy's site right now, found some stuff on their run game...

Well, that was it. Here it is again if anyone else is interested: http://brophyfootball.blogspot.com/2009/08/spread-run-game.html

I feel like @TXHusker05 may have some insight on this, here's hoping.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
#25
I don't know a ton about the X's and O's of what Missouri does (did), just that they ran a ton of empty sets and had their QB at "rifle" depth (toes at ~7 yards). They have a killer screen game like that article mentioned, they have playmakers at WR and how better to get them in the game than just throw an easy screen to them and let them go to work?

Back when Brad Smith was QB, I would say the majority of their offense was just QB scrambles. Empty it out, if the throws weren't there, off he went. Nebraska's first loss to Missouri after like 26 straight seasons of wins came in a game just like that. Brad Smith went off for like 300 yards of offense by himself. It was just screens and quicks and if it wasn't there, off he went. That's the deadly thing about Empty, you can pressure/contain the quarterback or you can cover all 5 receivers, you can't do both. Missouri has done a great job recruiting quarterbacks for their offense over that time, they found guys who fit what they did even if they didn't fit the "typical" QB mold.

The only X's and O's thing about Missouri that has always stuck with me is the depth they set up their QB. I don't know if they still do it but in those days, it was routinely 7-8 yard shotgun depth. The ball was usually out before anyone had a chance to sack the QB.
 

bruin228

Madden Mobile Addict
NCAA Moderator
#26
Yeah, I was reading an article about how Pinkel got at least some of the offense from BGSU when he was at Toledo and then when he went to Mizzou, Brad Smith was their offense.

And then when Daniel came in, he had been running essentially that offense since high school so it was second nature to him.

I wish we could set things like QB depth and line splits, I remember watching the game where Mizzou upset OU and Gabbart was so far back in those Empty sets. I loved it.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
#27
Maty Mauk is Chase Daniel 2.0 too. We got to see it some when Franklin went down this year. If Gary Pinkel could design and build a quarterback from scratch, Maty Mauk is what the final result would be. That kid spent his entire childhood and HS years in a Missouri clone offense. Empty, wide splits, sling it around and scramble. Missouri's biggest strength is their ability to pluck players out of high school programs that run very similar offenses to Mizzou's. Chase Daniel in particular flew under the radar because of the type of QB he was. The guy set Texas HS football records and was 5A POY, but he was barely recruited because he was a stocky 6' former wide receiver who had two years of QB experience running a generic spread it and sling it offense that, at the time, was still fairly rare at the CFB level.

If Chase Daniel was a Class of 2014 recruit instead of 04-05, he would have had scholarship offers from 50 schools. Luckily for Missouri, they were one of the teams ahead of their time and got one of the best ever to play Texas HS Football to go out of state because no one else felt a small kid with two years of QB experience could play QB at that level. They didn't seem to care he was like 30-1, scored 130 TDs and won two 5A titles at Southlake Carroll.

SLC was also ahead of their time a bit at the HS level. At that time, it was still relatively rare to be 4-5 wide, up-tempo, sling it around at the HS level. Especially in Texas. Chad Morris was starting to do it some at Stephenville and a few other programs around the state were going spread tempo and slinging it around the field, but SLC was probably one of the first to make it really popular.

Here is the '03 5A Title (Loss):


And here is the '04 5A Title (Win):


The '04 game was really awesome, won on a last second FG the play after Daniel threw a rocket cross hash out route to get them into FG range.
 

bruin228

Madden Mobile Addict
NCAA Moderator
#32
I forgot how much going Oregon lightspeed every once in a while helps your offense. It gives you a great chance against people who are totally unprepared. I used it against Navy a few times tonight and hit some big plays. The biggest one in my mind was running HB Off Tackle out of Split Twins, picking up about 7-8, and then sprinting to the line to run Triple Option Right. Navy always has his Option D on Conservative so I got a keep read and his corner picked up the pitch option so it was just me and Navy around the LOS and he completely missed the tackle, one he usually makes 10 times out of 10, because he wasn't in great position yet and I broke it for a 40 yard TD.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
#33
I forgot how much going Oregon lightspeed every once in a while helps your offense. It gives you a great chance against people who are totally unprepared. I used it against Navy a few times tonight and hit some big plays. The biggest one in my mind was running HB Off Tackle out of Split Twins, picking up about 7-8, and then sprinting to the line to run Triple Option Right. Navy always has his Option D on Conservative so I got a keep read and his corner picked up the pitch option so it was just me and Navy around the LOS and he completely missed the tackle, one he usually makes 10 times out of 10, because he wasn't in great position yet and I broke it for a 40 yard TD.
I love going tempo against Navy. He is very deliberate in what he does on offense so at times you can really take advantage of it.
I nearly blew a 21 point lead vs Flann tonight going super conservative. If I stepped on the gas a little bit and ran some tempo I think I could have avoided that. I was too worried about making a mistake and almost made it anyway.

I'd love to run tempo running my new Nebraska offense as well, I think a multiple I-formation up-tempo offense could be pretty successful. I started out as nearly identical to the mid-90s era Nebraska teams, but I think I'm going to put my own little spin on it. I really want to take advantage of some Twin TE Slot sets in both Pistol and Gun. Not only do I have the personnel for it with either 2 TE or a TE and my big blocking WR but you can also get to those sets really seamlessly via up-tempo with a FB on the field.

I keep flashing back to some of the stuff Nebraska did on offense in 2010 and really liking the ideas. That sounds dumb because Nebraska was really mediocre on offense that year but we really did some awesome things. Martinez was injured derailing most of the season and Shawn Watson ended up getting sent packing as offensive coordinator but he had some cool ideas. A lot of Twin TE sets from both Pistol and Gun, a decent amount of option but mostly just power run.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
#35
When do you use Jet Sweeps?
In my Spread-I, I like to run Jet Sweep off of up-tempo. I feel like it is much more successful like that against users because they can't manually adjust as many defenders and all the moving parts off of up-tempo really gets users all over the place.

For example, on 1st down I may run Wing Trio Buck Sweep going to the right. The ball would end up on the right hash and I'd come back with no-huddle Wing Offset Wk Jet Sweep. I try and run Jet from the near side so the motion hits quicker, but that's not always possible because some Jet Sweeps are broken running right to left off of tempo.

The only time I really use Jet out of the huddle is when I want to go Wildcat. In that case, it is just a reason to get the ball in the hands of someone different, not because of any specific defensive alignment.
 

Craig7835

Active Member
#38
I have a question. I more of a West Coast/Pro Style kind of guy & I have several Spread running plays in my PB. The problem that I'm having though is the slide protection. The defense always line up in the 46 Bear & say for instance,if I come out in a WR Reverse & I put the protection towards the run,the AI always blows up the protection.Heck at times I even motion the receiver & the defense DOES NOT FLINCH because I don't know if they are in man,zone or what. Can anyone help me here?
 

JSU Zack

How do I IT?
#39
@Craig7835 Slide protection only really works for passing plays. Also, the jet sweep is pretty terrible in this game due to poor edge blocking. You're better off using screens & quick outs to stretch the defense horizontally.

If the defense isn't flinching, it's a zone blitz.
 
#40
I have a question. I more of a West Coast/Pro Style kind of guy & I have several Spread running plays in my PB. The problem that I'm having though is the slide protection. The defense always line up in the 46 Bear & say for instance,if I come out in a WR Reverse & I put the protection towards the run,the AI always blows up the protection.Heck at times I even motion the receiver & the defense DOES NOT FLINCH because I don't know if they are in man,zone or what. Can anyone help me here?
I don't think slide protection does anything on run plays.

Running a reverse (or Jet sweep) against an 8 man front isn't going to work most of the time either.
 

NavyHog

Well-Known Member
Utopia Moderator
NCAA Moderator
#41
@Craig7835 Slide protection only really works for passing plays. Also, the jet sweep is pretty terrible in this game due to poor edge blocking. You're better off using screens & quick outs to stretch the defense horizontally.

If the defense isn't flinching, it's a zone blitz.
Yeah I removed all WB Toss plays. Blocking for that is turrible.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
#43
I'm not fond of WB Toss in Flexbone. I originally had it in there and had a little success but I didn't like it as my quick run audible so I removed it. I do run HB Toss out of the I constantly and have quite a bit of success with it. I prefer the Weak Toss plays that are in I Twins Flex, I Tight and I Y Trips but really any of the tosses will do.

HB Toss out of Gun Slot F Wing is also a really great play if you're more of a gun spread offense. Unfortunately, you can only run that play going to the right. If you flip it, you're probably going to get a weird animation where the HB turns all the way around to receive the pitch. In my Spread-I, I run that HB Toss to death in short yardage and goal line. There is also one in Gun Wing Offset that works, but not as well.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
#44
My game last night vs Ramesu was one of those "oh yeah, this is why I always run the spread" games. Was running my Osborne offense with Nebraska. It is a legit, true to the 1995 playbook Nebraska offense too so I am completely under center except one Gun formation, Gun Spread. I do have Pistol Full House in there as well because Flexbone Normal doesn't quite have all the plays I needed to replicate the offense.

I was absolutely shut down on offense. I mean, 208 yards on 40 plays and considering I had 2 40+ yard plays that means I averaged about 3 yards a play the rest of the game. Luckily I won because my defense was lights out, went down 14-7 and scored 14 quick points thanks to a turnover to retake the lead late and hold it the rest of the game.

It is very, very tough to run that kind of offense against competent users. If you can pass the ball well, you can negate some of those problems but I can't. I started 0-4 with an INT in the end zone, replaced my QB and he went 2 of 3 for 28 yards. It was a home game for me but sure didn't feel like it. The entire offense is based on the outside zone (stretch) and inside zone (blast) plays from the various I-Formations with little dashes of option and counter and Dive/Iso in there.

The problem is OZ and IZ from compressed I-Formations go to shit quickly against certain fronts. I tried literally everything from the Power and Maryland I formations to 3WR Ace sets and my zone game went nowhere. For the most part, he spread his DL and pinched his LBs and those DEs set the edge well so I couldn't bounce my zone plays and then I ended up cutting up field right into a LB. The few times I got the edge my back was left all alone vs a LB because a CB or S did his job and ate up my FB's block. In the Spread, you can counter that by quickly throwing it out to the slot via Bubble but not so much in the I. There aren't many constraint plays. I tried quick flat throws to the FB but I missed by a mile.

I was damn lucky to win that game. A fluke fumble and him taking a sack with no timeouts inside the 5 before halftime was the difference. My only scores came on a QB Power play from Gun, an option keeper from Pistol FH (off of up-tempo) and an Inside Zone play from Maryland I Wide.
 

JSU Zack

How do I IT?
#47
What are you looking for when you throw the PA screens out of 2x2 formations?
If the nickel back is playing too close to the LOS, he's probably blitzing. Alternatively, I'll also throw it if the DB's are playing off in zone.

The trick is to put the alley defenders in a lose lose situation. Either cover the alley to stop the zone read/counter game or get beat by the screen.
 

NavyHog

Well-Known Member
Utopia Moderator
NCAA Moderator
#48
I love me some bubble screens, but I hate the PA ones. The fake throws my timing off and it just feels "wonky".
 
#49
I love me some bubble screens, but I hate the PA ones. The fake throws my timing off and it just feels "wonky".
Agree totally.

A couple of my favorite bubble screen calls are the Slant/Bubble combo out of the 2x2 Spread formation and the Stick/Bubble out of several trips formations. The thing I like about Stick/Bubble is that you can make several different plays out of it really easily. What I like to do is to audible the receiver running the stick to a slant and audible the single receiver to a fade or an out. This creates a slant/bubble combo on the trips side, with the outside receiver running a go route.
 

bruin228

Madden Mobile Addict
NCAA Moderator
#50
If the nickel back is playing too close to the LOS, he's probably blitzing. Alternatively, I'll also throw it if the DB's are playing off in zone.

The trick is to put the alley defenders in a lose lose situation. Either cover the alley to stop the zone read/counter game or get beat by the screen.
Right but you can't actually hand it off on the play can you?