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[NML]

Vote on ur preference.

Draft would mean all players under contract for BA/Fax starting next season would be available to select in a draft based on reverse order of the standings. Delete means those players get early retirement.

Others are self explanatory

 

[Yankee151]

Everyone is just gonna put quitting regardless

 

[NML]

Everyone is just gonna put quitting regardless

Three votes and 0 so far!

I’m putting new league, however I expect that won’t have much support. So my vote will go contraction and delete at that point.

 

[Orlando]

Also to be clear, what yankee said is correct. The league has a talent threshold and if we retire players it may take a while for that talent to regenerate. It also may make drafts and IFA funky. Deletion or draft applies to the entire organizations.

 

[NML]

But we’re also deleting two teams. Shouldn’t that adjust the talent level too?

 

[Yankee151]

One of those teams has been responsible for like 80% of IFA hits over the past 8+ seasons

 

[doh]

But doesn't the talent pool not really matter? Let's just say we generated no good IFA/Draft players for 8-10 years... doesn't the level of competition just come down?

 

[Orlando]

But we’re also deleting two teams. Shouldn’t that adjust the talent level too?

Yes but you are talking about a disproportionate amount of talent being deleted.

But doesn't the talent pool not really matter? Let's just say we generated no good IFA/Draft players for 8-10 years... doesn't the level of competition just come down?

What do you mean doesn’t matter? You want to delete the talent and then not generate new talent?

 

[Schauwn]

I thought he was saying that the talent level goes down across the league, because those guys are deleted, and then the game will compensate accordingly IFA/draft. But if it doesn't, then he's okay with that? But I never understand @doh

 

[Yankee151]

It doesn't matter if your base talent pool is all bad. that's how it works when you run an MLB sim and have the Japanese League running simultaneously. But if you just take 20 (or more) of the league's 50 best players/prospects (including some on BA) out, then the remaining 30 become really good by comparison. That's also not including 14 of the league's top 100 prospects disappearing (a much higher split than 1/9)

Once the average prospect is much worse, it makes the really good players even more of unicorns, and benefits ultra hard tanking for those top 3 pick guys

 

[Yankee151]

There's also little guarantee his rotation guys will perform nearly as well in a different environment in regards to chemistry and all that. They are good but part of it is just bumped up by the winning culture and all that

 

[doh]

Yes but you are talking about a disproportionate amount of talent being deleted.


What do you mean doesn’t matter? You want to delete the talent and then not generate new talent?

Why does it matter? I'm serious. Won't the stats adjust and we will have the same league averages. A .270 hitter might become a .290 hitter.

If anything, JV is so skewed to one team-- that is a much worse problem to have talent pool wise. There are 2 teams in all of JV with a winning record!

 

[Orlando]

Why does it matter? I'm serious. Won't the stats adjust and we will have the same league averages. A .270 hitter might become a .290 hitter.

If anything, JV is so skewed to one team-- that is a much worse problem to have talent pool wise. There are 2 teams in all of JV with a winning record!

No, because the baseline talent is still the baseline.

 

[Orlando]

You are also talking about completely erasing players like Gwilt, Sabertooth, Muli and Karshev. To to mention I don’t know what happens to the stats of players who played for BR/SF/FAX at any point in time. They might just disappear.

 

[OU11]

I thought it didnt matter when i changed the draft eligible age by one year for HS kids. Rad still brings it up randomly to this day

 

[OU11]

and it's not 2 teams. it's 8

 

[Yankee151]

Deleting Fax and BA's players won't make the SL better, it'll just makes it so those teams are now over .500. But the dearth of talent of those 7 teams compared to the 9 of the NL will still remain. I am positive Wooly got a massive boost from winning the SL year after year in terms of development and finances, something the other 7 won't be able to get back. There are NL teams that had financial stability to purchase IFA just from being able to be competitive, whereas SL teams couldn't because Wooly made half the teams in the conference under .500. Of the teams remaining in the SL, there's 2 who have a chance of being competitive once we realign (Beef, False Bay), the rest will take a year (UK, KAB?) or more (MIA, LR, NDR) to get back to competing. At least grabbing some of the talent allows them flexibility to tank harder or sign a couple FAs and start pushing for it.

If you delete Fax's players you are basically washing away a lot of potential the SL teams should've had in full force were it not for the bad records.

 

[Mr. Radpants]

I think we should nerf or eliminate IFA

 

[Yankee151]

And FWIW, a contraction draft hurts Buffalo in a lot of ways. We are maxed out on cash so we can only grab guys on the minimum from the two teams. It also makes the 12 teams worse than us a lot better. But I think it's a better option than the alternative

IFA is definitely something to look at but not today's debate

 

[NML]

Well the talent thing works both ways. If we don’t delete/retire players, then we have the same talent level but two less teams. Could result in some weird (aka bad) draft/IFA classes

 

[Orlando]

But it’s not nearly as disproportionate

 

[Yankee151]

That's true, but it does give the weaker teams more options. Even if Miami decides to tank now they have an extra piece to deal that was probably taken from them by Fax indirectly

The stats will (mostly) normalize but I still think the discrepancy between the (soon to be former) conferences will resonate for a while without the redistribution. I built a couple Istanbul teams when the NL was basically 4-5 juggernaut teams and it was very hard, and that was before IFA became overpowered. For a couple of the remaining SL teams (BA was one as well) they've been in the hole for years. Buffalo was the same until Lloyd willed himself into a competent farm system by years of top 3 picks.

Fax has basically taken the top 6 IFAs every two offseasons. Even over 6 years that's 18 players that could've gone to other teams. Feels okay to send them back where they could've been if there wasn't a team with a budget that's almost 75M bigger than some teams because of cheat codes.

 

[Wolfman21]

Deleting Fax and BA's players won't make the SL better, it'll just makes it so those teams are now over .500. But the dearth of talent of those 7 teams compared to the 9 of the NL will still remain. I am positive Wooly got a massive boost from winning the SL year after year in terms of development and finances, something the other 7 won't be able to get back. There are NL teams that had financial stability to purchase IFA just from being able to be competitive, whereas SL teams couldn't because Wooly made half the teams in the conference under .500. Of the teams remaining in the SL, there's 2 who have a chance of being competitive once we realign (Beef, False Bay), the rest will take a year (UK, KAB?) or more (MIA, LR, NDR) to get back to competing. At least grabbing some of the talent allows them flexibility to tank harder or sign a couple FAs and start pushing for it.

If you delete Fax's players you are basically washing away a lot of potential the SL teams should've had in full force were it not for the bad records.

Kabul is ready to compete if my players stop getting injured

 

[Yankee151]

Just wondering, what's the argument against a contraction draft? Is it the complexity of it? Or do you guys just want all those players eliminated from existence due to their taint?

 

[Yankee151]

Kabul is ready to compete if my players stop getting injured

Hence the question mark I put. You could probably put Buffalo in that category too, all of our rotation are going to be in the pen by 2070

 

[NML]

But it’s not nearly as disproportionate

Based on what?

Maybe you’ve done research to this, but it makes more logical sense to remove two teams AND two teams worth of talent versus keeping the same talent level with two less teams.

 

[Yankee151]

OSA of course, but Halifax and BA have 16 of the Top 40 players and 14 of the top 100 prospects. So the skew is a bit different

 

[doh]

lulz at all of this talent could get out of whack talk when one team has the 4 best SPs in the game.

 

[Yankee151]

Under a contraction draft, none of the teams will get all 4 pitchers, so I'm not following. Do you think those players should be removed just for existing? What if the draft was everyone but the rotation and we retired just those 4 guys?

 

[NML]

I think he means that it’s silly to freak out about the talent distribution when we simultaneously have a team that’s winning 140 games

 

[Yankee151]

I don't think any of them are that crazy individually. Breaking them up amongst the teams prevents Halifax from happening again. If you remove them, the number of ace-like SP in the league drops immensely. Buffalo has like 3 of the remaining ones. Vegas, Cairo, and Helga probably have the rest. So the weak teams will still have shitty SP but the remaining aces will be even more valuable in comparison.

 

[Yankee151]

I think he means that it’s silly to freak out about the talent distribution when we simultaneously have a team that’s winning 140 games

It could create a situation where there's only about 7 teams in the league that have any talent, and now they won't be checked by Halifax's (or BA which as another 5 or so solid guys) players. Buffalo would win 100 games without BA and Fax, should Morin, Santos, and Invalid be deleted too? How about Vegas' rotaiton? A lot of pot and kettle of similar colors coming from Doh here.

 

[Yankee151]

Again the deletion works out better for Buffalo so I'm cool with either side. But it won't be without consequence to delete a quarter of our league's present and future talent

 

[NML]

The league will self-correct either way. Either with slightly worse classes or slightly better.

IMO, the impact will be less with deletion, since we are also deleting two teams.

 

[Yankee151]

Maybe an IFA fix is the better answer, since that's really what a contraction draft would help offset the effects of. Otherwise It'll be back to about 4 teams with a subtle IFA monopoly rather than 1 team with an absurd one and 3 teams with a subtle one.

 

[Orlando]

Based on what?

Maybe you’ve done research to this, but it makes more logical sense to remove two teams AND two teams worth of talent versus keeping the same talent level with two less teams.

Based on the uneven distribution of talent Fax has.

lulz at all of this talent could get out of whack talk when one team has the 4 best SPs in the game.

That’s not the point at all and you know this.

 

[Orlando]

I think he means that it’s silly to freak out about the talent distribution when we simultaneously have a team that’s winning 140 games

I’m not even talking about distribution. I’m talking about overall talent.

 

[Orlando]

The league will self-correct either way. Either with slightly worse classes or slightly better.

IMO, the impact will be less with deletion, since we are also deleting two teams.

Ugh I’m going to triple post here, but it’s much more complicated than this when you consider minors. I don’t know how you can say the impact is less with deletion. You are removing a disproportionate amount of talent from the league compared to organizations. Part of the reason so many prospects failed is because his succeeded.

 

[Yankee151]

If you assume you need at least 4 or 5 Top 50 players to be a legit playoff contender, removing 16 (probably more) makes the remaining 34 a lot rarer. Top budget teams will have more naturally due to more IFA spending money and FA money, so that leaves maybe 2 or 3 guys per season for small budget teams to acquire outside of draft/tanking. Giving every team a shot at one of these guys gives them the ability to maybe add one more piece and challenge for the playoffs, or to deal a guy and consolidate their build for the future.

In the long run it will even out, but in the short run the gap between the best teams and the worst teams will get wider. Prices for aces and top bats will go way up because there will be less, and there will be even less incentive to let them go to FA. So how does a bad team improve? Tanking (including dropping payroll very low for IFA signings) and that's it.

It's not about talent distribution in terms of players to teams, but rather in terms of the relative skill level of players overall.

 

[Yankee151]

I'm just curious about the short term upside to deletion over draft. In the long run it won't matter, but why is it better to get rid of all those players? Maybe it is better but I am not sure how.

 

[OU11]

@Orlando just let them delete the teams if they want and it'll ruin the league for good and we can lady to rest

 

[Orlando]

Plus I really don’t like the idea of removing players that are already generated. It’s an immersion killer to just kill off these players.

 

[NML]

I’m intrigued by the “leveling” of the draft, but I’m envisioning really shitty drafts/IFAs for the next 4-5 years while the league self corrects the talent.

Ugh I’m going to triple post here, but it’s much more complicated than this when you consider minors. I don’t know how you can say the impact is less with deletion. You are removing a disproportionate amount of talent from the league compared to organizations. Part of the reason so many prospects failed is because his succeeded.

But it has to work both ways. 16 teams are going to instantly get significantly better - top level, depth, and minors.

 

[ZackMills]

You are also talking about completely erasing players like Gwilt, Sabertooth, Muli and Karshev. To to mention I don’t know what happens to the stats of players who played for BR/SF/FAX at any point in time. They might just disappear.

That would be a real bummer. The things @Reel did to WBL players is a relic that shouldn't be lost.

 

[Orlando]

I’m intrigued by the “leveling” of the draft, but I’m envisioning really shitty drafts/IFAs for the next 4-5 years while the league self corrects the talent.



But it has to work both ways. 16 teams are going to instantly get significantly better - top level, depth, and minors.

It works both ways but with less impact if you keep them. I’m not sure what you think the reverse. If you delete them you lose what, 35% of league talent? If you don’t you have an overage of like 10%.

 

[Yankee151]

The draft will be good, perhaps even better, the next 4 years because those players are already generated. Presumably we just liquidate two teams in each feeder league and let the players roam free

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[Orlando]

I’m not sure we will have to adjust feeders but I’d have to look into that. We have to reschedule and realign every minor league though.

 

[OU11]

Talent changes take 3 years just to get to the draft so it's a long process

 

[Orlando]

Right. Liquidating talent just makes zero sense to me plus ruins immersion. Sending Rapey Pete to the blue factory? How dare you!

Yankee asked, but no one really answered as to the reason to delete.

 

[bruin228]

Deleting Fax and BA's players won't make the SL better, it'll just makes it so those teams are now over .500. But the dearth of talent of those 7 teams compared to the 9 of the NL will still remain. I am positive Wooly got a massive boost from winning the SL year after year in terms of development and finances, something the other 7 won't be able to get back. There are NL teams that had financial stability to purchase IFA just from being able to be competitive, whereas SL teams couldn't because Wooly made half the teams in the conference under .500. Of the teams remaining in the SL, there's 2 who have a chance of being competitive once we realign (Beef, False Bay), the rest will take a year (UK, KAB?) or more (MIA, LR, NDR) to get back to competing. At least grabbing some of the talent allows them flexibility to tank harder or sign a couple FAs and start pushing for it.

If you delete Fax's players you are basically washing away a lot of potential the SL teams should've had in full force were it not for the bad records.