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MSU and Larry Nassar

adchester

Lake Superior is the superior lake
Point maybe true, but the response to sexual assault allegations is completely under each university's control. MSU's response is really bad here. It might be hard to make sure 85 players are always on the straight and narrow, but you can definitely control the response.
Yeah that what I'm saying, I think similar levels of coverup by administration are happening around the country. Maybe I'm just cynical, but I think MSU's response is closer to normal than we'd like to believe.
 

DeadMan

aka spiker or DeadMong
MSU students are consistently showing they are smarter than the people in charge at MSU, fortunately:

 

GatorTD

Male
Mod Alumni
Yeah that what I'm saying, I think similar levels of coverup by administration are happening around the country. Maybe I'm just cynical, but I think MSU's response is closer to normal than we'd like to believe.
It's probably not even a 'think' at this point. Its happening everywhere. The money involved is worth more to the university than the victims, so you do anything you push it out of view.
 

Brick

Well-Known Member
Eh, it's Gymnastics. I'd like to think if this were Izzo and that storied program, #teh MoVement by the students would be given the same amount of support, but I doubt it. There's no cognitive dissonance here for the slacktivists. Hasn't the Dantonio shit been going on, and known by students, for about a year or more?
 

MSUFanatic

Well-Known Member
Eh, it's Gymnastics. I'd like to think if this were Izzo and that storied program, #teh MoVement by the students would be given the same amount of support, but I doubt it. There's no cognitive dissonance here for the slacktivists. Hasn't the Dantonio shit been going on, and known by students, for about a year or more?
You discussing the 4 football players that were charged with sexual assault and promptly kicked off the team?
 

kella

Smug know-it-all
Staff member
Administrator
Operations
PSU people can be super fucking weird. I was hanging out with a friend here and I don't even remember how it came up, but her aunt, who didn't even attend PSU, just all of a sudden drops a "But who knows what Joe really knew" out of nowhere

Try living in a metro area within 200 miles of State College, PA. I go to a gym where numerous people work out while completely decked out in PSU Football gear. You know what I think of when I see "Penn State Football?" I think of Joe Sandusky molesting teenage boys and the program and school ignoring it. And I'm not alone. They are fucking insane wearing that shit around with so much pride.

If anything even 1/10th as bad as this kind of thing happened to my school I'd never wear their gear again.
 

DeadMan

aka spiker or DeadMong
Eh, it's Gymnastics. I'd like to think if this were Izzo and that storied program, #teh MoVement by the students would be given the same amount of support, but I doubt it. There's no cognitive dissonance here for the slacktivists. Hasn't the Dantonio shit been going on, and known by students, for about a year or more?
Yes, a lot of the stuff in that OTL report has been an open secret for years.
 

MSUFanatic

Well-Known Member
Yes, a lot of the stuff in that OTL report has been an open secret for years.

But with the Nassar case now, everything that was public previously is going to be re scrutinized with the a fine tooth comb. Basically the last 30 years of MSU athletics will be turned over and examined. Fair or not the Nassar situation has opened up MSU athletics like a tuna can. I don't see Izzo or Dantonio escaping this. Regardless of an external investigation, and even if they prove innocence of knowledge to Hollis, Simon, etc. The damage is done. It's like USC vacating titles. People remember the headlines and the moments. Not the facts after or investigation after.
 

DeadMan

aka spiker or DeadMong
Good bump. Since we last checked in, MSU hired an interim President, who's a former Governor and an MSU alum. Michigan's Attorney General, who is investigating MSU, is also running for Governor next year ... with the endorsement of MSU's interim President.

 

Southpaw

Fuckface
Utopia Moderator
I just cannot for the life of me understand why people protect these scum bags! It's not like they couldn't have found another doctor.
Oh he wasn't just protecting Nassar. He was an abuser too.

MSU trying to outdo PSU

The criminal complaint against Strampel alleges he propositioned female medical students for sex, groped them and solicited nude photos from them. Police seized Strampel’s university computer in February and discovered “approximately 50 photos of bare vaginas, nude and semi-nude women, sex toys and pornography.” Many of the photos appear to depict Michigan State students, according to the affidavit
 

MSUFanatic

Well-Known Member
Oh yeah, hat makes it so much better! Wait, no it doesn’t :loser:
It doesn't, don't think I said that anywhere. Good reading comp. When media has been trying to twist Larry Nassar and his crimes to intertwine with athletic programs (sans gymnastics) and claiming there is a systemic culture of rape among MSU versus sticking to facts, it's good to make sure correct facts are actually stated.

If anything this is another step in MSU showing they are serious about turning over every stone to hold those responsible for allowing something like this to happen. Good clean house, like every sensible individual has been saying.
 
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DeadMan

aka spiker or DeadMong
https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2018/04/13/michigan-state-title-ix-lawsuit-2015-final-four

Also: https://sports.yahoo.com/ridiculous-larry-nassar-board-meeting-michigan-state-needs-clean-house-222116940.html

To summarize what's been happening:
  • MSU gets sued by a student who was allegedly raped by basketball players. MSU violates federal law and releases personal information about the student, including that she saw a university counselor multiple times after the rape. Counselors also allegedly told her that she shouldn't pursue anything against the players. And they also said other MSU athletes had raped women at MSU... I mean, just what the fuck?
  • Meanwhile, the MSU President met with a victim and asked her for a number to settle her case (not that matters, but it was absurdly low). The victim just wanted to talk to him about his hurtful comments. In that meeting, he also lied and said the first victim to come over had given him a number. He's never met with her. He then said that the other arrest of the Dean in the post above wasn't a big deal because it was just a slap on the butt. Side note: he's a lawyer and came a little close to an ethics violation by meeting with the victim in the first place.
  • The MSU President also said that taxpayers and students would be on the hook for any settlements here and proposed a 3% tuition increase.
I mean, I don't even know anymore. The entire board of trustees at MSU and the President has to be replaced at this point. They don't get it at all, and they're destroying the MSU's reputation pretty fast.
 

goblue96

Disney and Curling Expert
My understanding of Michigan and/or federal law (I’m just a simple a hyper chicken) is that the settlement money can not come from tuition increases. It has to come from a separate pool of money even if that pool is an insurance policy.
 

MSUFanatic

Well-Known Member
https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2018/04/13/michigan-state-title-ix-lawsuit-2015-final-four

Also: https://sports.yahoo.com/ridiculous-larry-nassar-board-meeting-michigan-state-needs-clean-house-222116940.html

To summarize what's been happening:
  • MSU gets sued by a student who was allegedly raped by basketball players. MSU violates federal law and releases personal information about the student, including that she saw a university counselor multiple times after the rape. Counselors also allegedly told her that she shouldn't pursue anything against the players. And they also said other MSU athletes had raped women at MSU... I mean, just what the fuck?
  • Meanwhile, the MSU President met with a victim and asked her for a number to settle her case (not that matters, but it was absurdly low). The victim just wanted to talk to him about his hurtful comments. In that meeting, he also lied and said the first victim to come over had given him a number. He's never met with her. He then said that the other arrest of the Dean in the post above wasn't a big deal because it was just a slap on the butt. Side note: he's a lawyer and came a little close to an ethics violation by meeting with the victim in the first place.
  • The MSU President also said that taxpayers and students would be on the hook for any settlements here and proposed a 3% tuition increase.
I mean, I don't even know anymore. The entire board of trustees at MSU and the President has to be replaced at this point. They don't get it at all, and they're destroying the MSU's reputation pretty fast.
Lot to digest, but let's look at both parts of this. MSU did release a statement after J Doe released to the public her own lawsuit. It isn't violating any federal law (at least what I have read?), but MSU did back track and "regret" what they released. This is what they ended up in the release.

  • We have confirmed that, in April 2015, Jane Doe did visit MSU Counseling Center and that our records show that appropriate care and relevant information for a rape victim was provided to the student. We have not found any evidence or indication that she was discouraged in any way to make a Title IX complaint or a complaint to the police department. On the contrary, the student said she was then too distraught to discuss her circumstances. The counselor also suggested she visit the Sexual Assault Program unit on campus.
  • In February 2016, Jane Does visited the Sexual Assault Program unit to receive additional services. She was provided appropriate services, including group counseling sessions, participating in a consultation with a sexual assault advocate, and scheduling an initial appointment with a sexual assault program therapist (an appointment which she did not appear for).
  • In October 2015, Jane Doe’s father contacted her academic advisor to discuss concerns over academic performance. Through that conversation, the advisor learned about the alleged sexual assault. Academic advisors are mandatory reporters under MSU’s policies and the academic advisor promptly took the appropriate step of notifying the MSU Police Department about the potential assault.
  • The MSUPD Special Victims Unit took the report seriously and tried to reach Jane Doe to start the investigation and gather more information, but Jane Doe did not respond to their outreach. An informational email was sent to her that outlined resources available to her, including Title IX information, options to contact the Office of Institutional Equity and relevant counseling services.
  • Jane Doe never revealed the names of her alleged assailants nor, until she filed her lawsuit, did she publicly assert that an assault had occurred. To date, she has yet to exercise her right to make a Title IX complaint or contact the MSUPD or respond to the effort of the Special Victims Unit to learn information about the assault her father brought to the academic advisor’s attention.
  • Any information shared during meetings with MSU counseling and psychiatric services is private and confidential. When attempting to investigate the issue, MSUPD did not have names or any information about possible assailants as Jane Doe never responded to their inquiry. At no point was MSU Athletics Department or the Basketball Program or Head Basketball Coach aware of or notified of the existence of a Jane Doe’s sexual assault allegation.
So I guess take it for what it is? The release from her attorney was strong, I thought the statement MSU needed to make to defend itself needed to strong as well. I suppose it may have been poor, but the fact that J Doe still has yet to file a Title XI complaint nor did she follow up with PD (non MSU affiliated) are pretty important factors. The suit is about whether or not MSUCC followed correct procedures. That's pretty unknown at this point. She could have absolutely been raped. Not disputing that, but they need to determine whether or not correct procedures were followed by MSUCC and that's really unknown right now.

As far as the payment and the raise in tuition. Both of those things occurred in whatever this meeting is. That's now been refuted by 3 separate individuals. Another he said she said, but needs something needs to be figured out. There needs to be more clean up as it goes, but let's not mince words and just report all these headlines. I'm all for cleaning house, I also want answers to very important questions to make sure this never happens again at MSU or anywhere else.
 
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MSUFanatic

Well-Known Member
Editing out "if that's what it takes" after I post, lmao
Figure of speech that I poorly used, I'm agreeing with you.

Bit difficult to tread on a fine line of discussion and defense. Sorry I'm not good at first passes and try and fix things that may be in error. You pointed out something I said, and you are right.

Burning down those responsible for allowing things like this to happen is 100% the correct thing to do.
 

DeadMan

aka spiker or DeadMong
Lot to digest, but let's look at both parts of this. MSU did release a statement after J Doe released to the public her own lawsuit. It isn't violating any federal law (at least what I have read?), but MSU did back track and "regret" what they released. This is what they ended up in the release.

So I guess take it for what it is? The release from her attorney was strong, I thought the statement MSU needed to make to defend itself needed to strong as well. I suppose it may have been poor, but the fact that J Doe still has yet to file a Title XI complaint nor did she follow up with PD (non MSU affiliated) are pretty important factors. The suit is about whether or not MSUCC followed correct procedures. That's pretty unknown at this point. She could have absolutely been raped. Not disputing that, but they need to determine whether or not correct procedures were followed by MSUCC and that's really unknown right now.
Yeah, that is a violation of FERPA (and apparently another law I've never heard of before): https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/04/12/experts-msu-likely-violated-federal-privacy-laws-statement-rape-lawsuit/509906002/ MSU's

But, that's not the real problem here. The real problem is that MSU just told every sexual assault victim that goes to MSU for help that their dirty laundry might be aired in public in the future. It makes her decision not to follow up with MSU's title IX office entirely correct! Plus, they're even telling the public what she said to a counselor. That is a huge problem! If you're a going to a counseling session, you generally don't want people to even know you're going. And MSU went beyond that in the statement.

The point being is that MSU is still making it harder for sexual assault victims to get the help they need.

As far as the payment and the raise in tuition. Both of those things occurred in whatever this meeting is. That's now been refuted by 3 separate individuals. Another he said she said, but needs something needs to be figured out. There needs to be more clean up as it goes, but let's not mince words and just report all these headlines. I'm all for cleaning house, I also want answers to very important questions to make sure this never happens again at MSU or anywhere else.
Really? This is pathetic. He said, she said. One side of this is John Engler, who is a piece of shit and only interested in limiting MSU's liability. He doesn't even deny what happened in the meeting:

Our memories and interpretations of the March 28 meeting are different than hers. I am sorry if anything said during the meeting was misunderstood. Regardless, since mediation of all claims begins on April 25, there will be an appropriate place for discussions concerning what would be a fair and equitable resolution.
The other side are victims of Nasser and MSU, who have been constantly proven right. But, yeah, it's "he said, she said." Good lord.
 

DeadMan

aka spiker or DeadMong
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/04/18/michigan-state-larry-nassar-engler/527681002/

MSU's special counsel to Engler is now saying that the victims are trying to set up MSU. These people have no shame.

"The President talked to Kaylee's mom on the phone days earlier before they arrived in the reception area demanding a meeting with the President saying they would not leave until they met," the e-mail says. "The meeting began with their pleas (and pleas throughout the meeting) that this meeting be kept 'confidential' and they would 'be in big trouble if it was known that they were meeting with us.' I was surprised this was the same mom that the President had talked to. But I know now that they wanted to meet in person so they could get him to talk to Kaylee, as Bob Young cautioned, to 'set up' MSU."

...

"Understand that Bob Young advises that the plaintiff attorneys are willing to make bold and false assertions to advance their goal of increasing the cost of settlement," Viventi's e-mail said. "What members of the board say in public can, however unwittingly, advance the plaintiffs' goals and injure the university. When, as here, it is possible to verify whether public assertions made by plaintiffs are true, there should never be a statement in the press by board members that gives credibility to sensational headlines or what can best be described as "false news."
 
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