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Sarknado II - USC Trojans 2015 season.
- Thread starter BasinBictory
- Start date
BasinBictory
OUT with the GOUT
So USC finally un-fucks themselves and beats up on a paper tiger #3 team. Was nice to see the team actually rolling, and those three INTs by Cameron Smith were fun as hell, particularly his third which he tipped to himself like Dennis Rodman getting a rebound.
Whether this is a sign of the team trending in a positive direction, or just a one-off great performance that we won't see again this year remains to be seen. Was good to see an O-line that lost their senior captain and starting center play tough and mow down the Utah defense.
Whether this is a sign of the team trending in a positive direction, or just a one-off great performance that we won't see again this year remains to be seen. Was good to see an O-line that lost their senior captain and starting center play tough and mow down the Utah defense.
Bdub
Well-Known Member
They definitely exposed Utah no doubt about that. Utah was dominating the line until Demick got hurt, combine that and already having their best LB and DB hurt they couldn't stop SC. Then the offense was just shit and it got away from them quickly. Utah would kill to have depth like USC has, depth you have to have to make a run in a big boy conference.
BasinBictory
OUT with the GOUT
Clay Helton for AD.
I'm thrilled with the win. But I'm not even cautiously optimistic yet.....I'm still skeptical. I couldn't believe we beat ASU either, let alone blasted them. And then we turned around and lost the next 2. I hope the players are rallying around Helton and will have a strong finish to the season. But the remaining schedule is far from easy.
BasinBictory
OUT with the GOUT
Finally got to see the Cal game via DVR. Knew the result already, but was curious as to the journey.
The offense was...adequate. I do like that Helton committed to the run when it is warranted, and the O-line played quite well considering they're down to their third-string center (as well as a backup guard, since one of the starting guards is also the #2 center). Was gratifying to see the O-line and running backs able to close out a game with a one-score lead.
Kessler reminds me more and more of Rob Johnson, in that he's staring down receivers, holding the ball too long, and also taking too long to make the decision to run if necessary. Other than Smith-Schuster, the receiving corps is rather pedestrian.
Defensively, Goff got his yards and TDs, but overall the SC defense has been playing well. There's was a disconcerting lack of pressure on the QB, but it was partially made up for with good coverage. Adoree Jackson's pick-six proved to be the decisive margin in the game.
Will be attending the Arizona game for homecoming, and hopefully, like most homecoming opponents, the Wildcats will oblige and lay down to be obliterated.
@BearDownUofA
After the Wildcats, the Trojans have @Oregon, @Colorado, and UCLA to finish up the regular season. It's not unreasonable to think they can run the rest of the table, but Eugene is a tough place to play, even if the Ducks are down, Colorado has been playing tough (even if not victoriously), and UCLA has owned us the past three years (and incidentally, the last USC coach to beat UCLA was Lane Kiffin
)
Then it's off to some shitty bowl game in El Paso, San Francisco, possibly even San Diego, but probably not Pasadena.
The offense was...adequate. I do like that Helton committed to the run when it is warranted, and the O-line played quite well considering they're down to their third-string center (as well as a backup guard, since one of the starting guards is also the #2 center). Was gratifying to see the O-line and running backs able to close out a game with a one-score lead.
Kessler reminds me more and more of Rob Johnson, in that he's staring down receivers, holding the ball too long, and also taking too long to make the decision to run if necessary. Other than Smith-Schuster, the receiving corps is rather pedestrian.
Defensively, Goff got his yards and TDs, but overall the SC defense has been playing well. There's was a disconcerting lack of pressure on the QB, but it was partially made up for with good coverage. Adoree Jackson's pick-six proved to be the decisive margin in the game.
Will be attending the Arizona game for homecoming, and hopefully, like most homecoming opponents, the Wildcats will oblige and lay down to be obliterated.
@BearDownUofA After the Wildcats, the Trojans have @Oregon, @Colorado, and UCLA to finish up the regular season. It's not unreasonable to think they can run the rest of the table, but Eugene is a tough place to play, even if the Ducks are down, Colorado has been playing tough (even if not victoriously), and UCLA has owned us the past three years (and incidentally, the last USC coach to beat UCLA was Lane Kiffin
)Then it's off to some shitty bowl game in El Paso, San Francisco, possibly even San Diego, but probably not Pasadena.
@BasinBictory I mostly agree with your take, above.
I was on a plane during the ND game so I didn't see any of it, but a close loss on the road to a...what are they top 5 now?...team is nothing to hang your head about. And then a win at home over the #3 team and a road win against a potent offense. So far, the team seems to be playing with a renewed energy under Helton (though that's almost always the case with a coaching change). And the commitment to the running game is a welcome sight.
I still think the team has issues, and I don't know if Helton is the right guy long term or not. If he closes out 3-1 or 4-0 and beats UCLA, I think he'll get a shot though.
I was on a plane during the ND game so I didn't see any of it, but a close loss on the road to a...what are they top 5 now?...team is nothing to hang your head about. And then a win at home over the #3 team and a road win against a potent offense. So far, the team seems to be playing with a renewed energy under Helton (though that's almost always the case with a coaching change). And the commitment to the running game is a welcome sight.
I still think the team has issues, and I don't know if Helton is the right guy long term or not. If he closes out 3-1 or 4-0 and beats UCLA, I think he'll get a shot though.
BasinBictory
OUT with the GOUT
If Helton wins out, then I think he's earned the job. Whether he will be successful long term is a different question altogether.
However, by the end of the season, he will be kind of a known quantity, and unless there's some slam-bang surefire great coach that Pat Haden has in mind that no one else knows about, I don't really see the value in causing yet another upheaval in the program when any other likely candidate is going to be only as good (and probably worse) than Sarkiffin.
However, by the end of the season, he will be kind of a known quantity, and unless there's some slam-bang surefire great coach that Pat Haden has in mind that no one else knows about, I don't really see the value in causing yet another upheaval in the program when any other likely candidate is going to be only as good (and probably worse) than Sarkiffin.
BasinBictory
OUT with the GOUT
They're all paper tigers this year, it seems like.
It's an interesting dilemma (potentially.....we'll see how the next 4 games go). Hypothetically, say he wins out, but you still don't think he's the right guy for the long haul. Do you give him the job anyway? What if he goes 2-2 but the losses are flukey, the players like him, you believe in him, etc. Do you give him the job after a mediocre record?
I don't know what the answer is. I went to an alumni breakfast before the season at which he was one of the speakers. He seems like a genuinely nice guy who loves what he does. But that doesn't necessarily mean he's the right fit.
Very well could be. There are certainly teams out there who seem to be on a different level than ND. That being said, the Irish are solid, and losing to them at their place in a pretty close game is a "good loss" (I hate that term) for an interim coach who's looking to secure the job long term.
nofx94
Active Member
As long as we're talking about paper tigers, I'd have left Alabama out of the top four and put Sparty or Baylor or TCU there.
All that notwithstanding, I think if Helton is 2-2 with fluky losses and the players love him you give him a shot. I don't think there's anyone in the market that's a surefire success, and I want someone who's shown he can win at least somewhat. And next year we have to break in a new quarterback anyway so it's not like we're giving up a 12-0/11-1 year next year. It's going to be all new everything regardless. I'd rather have the guy that's shown some success and is willing to run the ball... As long as he beats UCLA.
No reason we can't go undefeated. There's no excuse to lose to Colorado or Arizona.
Oregon's not as good as us this year, even with identical records. We blew out the team that blew them out and haven't lost by more than ten.
And if we go 3-1 and lose close to UCLA we may as well let him have it.
All that notwithstanding, I think if Helton is 2-2 with fluky losses and the players love him you give him a shot. I don't think there's anyone in the market that's a surefire success, and I want someone who's shown he can win at least somewhat. And next year we have to break in a new quarterback anyway so it's not like we're giving up a 12-0/11-1 year next year. It's going to be all new everything regardless. I'd rather have the guy that's shown some success and is willing to run the ball... As long as he beats UCLA.
No reason we can't go undefeated. There's no excuse to lose to Colorado or Arizona.
Oregon's not as good as us this year, even with identical records. We blew out the team that blew them out and haven't lost by more than ten.
And if we go 3-1 and lose close to UCLA we may as well let him have it.
Don't know. I've been too busy cold calling and mixing cocktails to have listened to any of them.
BasinBictory
OUT with the GOUT
Well, Arizona didn't lay down and die, they put up a pretty decent fight before going down 38-30.
What was heartening to see is the Trojans successfully overcoming a 14-0 deficit to win, in relatively convincing fashion (UofA's last touchdown came late and with the game well in hand). Previous Trojan teams under Sarkiffin seemed to be mentally fragile, and almost always required being able to jump out to a big lead, and then hold on, to win.
The fact that in the last two games, Helton's Trojans have given up early leads, then battled back to win, is an encouraging sign that 1)the team is mentally tough enough not to mail it in when they get behind, and 2)Helton and staff appear to make appropriate adjustments to both offense and defense. Both Cal and Arizona appeared to drive the field with ease early in their games, but then the going got tougher as the game went on and USC defense made several good plays to force three-and-outs. The opposite pattern seemed to be the norm for USC defenses in recent years.
What was heartening to see is the Trojans successfully overcoming a 14-0 deficit to win, in relatively convincing fashion (UofA's last touchdown came late and with the game well in hand). Previous Trojan teams under Sarkiffin seemed to be mentally fragile, and almost always required being able to jump out to a big lead, and then hold on, to win.
The fact that in the last two games, Helton's Trojans have given up early leads, then battled back to win, is an encouraging sign that 1)the team is mentally tough enough not to mail it in when they get behind, and 2)Helton and staff appear to make appropriate adjustments to both offense and defense. Both Cal and Arizona appeared to drive the field with ease early in their games, but then the going got tougher as the game went on and USC defense made several good plays to force three-and-outs. The opposite pattern seemed to be the norm for USC defenses in recent years.
BasinBictory
OUT with the GOUT
@Colorado
@Oregon
UCLA
I fully expected to beat Cal and Arizona, but this last quarter of the season will be his make or break. 2-1 might not be enough to gain him the job, unfortunately, especially if the loss is to UCLA - again. 1-2, and Haden will be giving Mike Riley a call.
BasinBictory
OUT with the GOUT
goblue96
Disney and Curling Expert
Good. New York won't let me enroll in food stamps.
BasinBictory
OUT with the GOUT
He's the hot ticket hire right now, and has Southern California roots, but Haden might be leery of hiring a young guy with little head coaching experience
This, times eleventy-billion.
That was one of the more satisfying wins in a long time.......not because of the opponent, or that it was Homecoming, or anything like that; merely because they went down a couple scores and then came back to win. As you said, and as we've all bitched about for a few years, under Kiff or Sark, unless we were up 17+ at halftime, I felt like we were going to lose. The team was always garbage in the 2nd half. Not under Helton, at least so far.
That being said, I don't know if he's the long-term answer or not. Maybe I'm completely wrong about him, but I just never got the impression that he was THE guy to get SC back to the top. He's personable, and the players seem to like him, but that's not necessarily all it takes to be successful. SC fans don't want a nice guy who wins 9-10 games an occasional conference title. I want the guy in the national hunt more often than not.
bruin
Well-Known Member
Southern Cal has too big of an ego to go after a guy who has been at Houston for 1 year. Even if he was a great coordinator.
PSUEagle
Well-Known Member
This.
Actually think the guy USC should look at if they want to get back to their Pro Style roots is Hue Jackson: think his personality would be awesome in recruiting and he's proven he's a good OC at the NFL level. I'm sure @BasinBictory would have none of it though since he was on Paul Hackett's staff...
DeadMan
aka spiker or DeadMong
Would
hard if they hired Hue Jackson. He's had, what, one good year as an NFL OC? It'd be Lane Kiffin or Bill Calahan all over again.
PSUEagle
Well-Known Member
Would
-6th in points and 10th in yards in 2010 as OC of the Raiders: by far the best they've been on offense since their Super Bowl year with Jason Campbell at QB).
-16th in point and 9th in yards in 2011 as HC (and playcaller): were playing at a really high level again first six weeks with Campbell before he got hurt and they made a midseason trade for Carson Palmer. Still finished in the top half of the league.
-15th in points and yards in 2014 with Cincinnati
-3rd in points and 6th in yards through eight games this year
I always assumed he was a clown TBH, but that's a pretty decent track record: the success he had with the Raiders especially is impressive considering how bad they've been on offense for the last decade plus.
Just think his personality would play well in college: think he could be the black version of Carroll in that recruits/players would gravitate towards him and want to play for him. Also think he'd be a good fit at Miami as well.
goblue96
Disney and Curling Expert
That would have been more impressive than the Bears reaching the Superb Owl with Rex Grossman.
DeadMan
aka spiker or DeadMong
Those numbers just say above average, at best, NFL OC. That's not really saying much. I know you love NFL coaching, but these are the same OCs who throw 30 times a game with Blake fucking Bortles as their QB.
PSUEagle
Well-Known Member
Sure, but that's not really my main point. Rather, I brought it up to point out that he's had way more success than someone Brian Schottenheimer or Cam Cameron (as examples) in the NFL running an offense: he's at worst demonstrated competence in that area.
My main thing is his personality/demeanor: a passionate trash talker like him would do real well in college compared to the buttoned up NFL IMO. I also think he'd be able to put together a really good staff: he probably has a really good network built up in the coaching community.
PSUEagle
Well-Known Member
That kind of goes to back to what we've been saying earlier: I don't know that there's any obvious guy out there for USC (like Harbaugh for UM last winter). For years I thought Jack Del Rio would be a really good get, but he's not leaving Oakland now that he has a Top 10 level QB for the first time in his HC career.
Kevin Sumlin, maybe? I don't see any other "big time" BCS guys that would be available, and at that point you're gambling on a mid major guy which is always a crapshoot. I'm with you on Herman (also really high on Justin Fuente) but it's still a risk: for every Urban Meyer there's at least three Al Golden's who fail miserably when they make the jump.
bruin
Well-Known Member
I bet Del Rio would listen no doubt if SC came calling. He lobbied for the job hard when the position was open a few years back. His 'dream' job. But like you said, he has Carr now and a very bright future in Oakland/LA.
BasinBictory
OUT with the GOUT
Perhaps Hue Jackson's coaching acumen has improved over the years, but here's the thing: coordinating and scheming with NFL-caliber players is a different ballgame than doing the same with 18-21 year old college kids.
The analogy I always used is that a NFL coach is like a conductor of a philharmonic symphony orchestra, where everyone knows their job, and is usually pretty damn good at it.
A college coach, more often than not, and especially if he's coming to a "rebuilding mode" program, is more like a high school band teacher. Not only do the kids barely know their jobs, most of them still need to be taught how to play at a high level, and of course, more importantly, how to be part of a team since they almost all were the man at whatever HS they came from.
All I remember about Hue Jackson's squads at USC were that they could light up a scoreboard.....but only when it didn't matter, like against Cal when we are already up by 20 in thr 3rd. In a tight ballgame and down by 10, with 8 minutes left? Well, you could be sure that Jackson's boys would take 7 minutes to drive for a field goal.
BasinBictory
OUT with the GOUT
WTF? Just looked up the game on the Interwebz, and Colorado is beating the pants off USC 17-3?
Fuck almighty. We were 6-3, I'm thinking 8-4, optimistic hope for a possible 9-3 fibish, but now 6-6 is a pretty distinct possibility.
Fuck almighty. We were 6-3, I'm thinking 8-4, optimistic hope for a possible 9-3 fibish, but now 6-6 is a pretty distinct possibility.
nofx94
Active Member
Lol. "O ye of little faith." I love how resilient we are. Man, if they win out it's got to be Helton.
I was thinking about how it's Friday the Thirteenth and their senior night and shit was screwy early but man talk about halftime adjustments. And that fucking blocked kick.
That was incredible.
I lost and gained and lost and regained faith so many times. I'm glad Colorado kept it close. Got a test before Oregon. That's good. Keeping our teeth sharp.
I was thinking about how it's Friday the Thirteenth and their senior night and shit was screwy early but man talk about halftime adjustments. And that fucking blocked kick.
That was incredible.
I lost and gained and lost and regained faith so many times. I'm glad Colorado kept it close. Got a test before Oregon. That's good. Keeping our teeth sharp.
BasinBictory
OUT with the GOUT
Yup, went to check the final score on my phone (at work and no access to TV or radio), expecting to be deflated, then pleasantly surprised that we pulled another one out. Definitely gonna be my Saturday mroing cartoon via DVR.
Yes, it's a win, and yes, it's nice that we can come from behind (hur hur hur) to win games, but personally I think Helton might have hurt his case for the HC job tonight. Colorado was a 16-point underdog, we should have plowed them. Instead, they punk us in the first half and have to come back and eke out a win.
@Oregon - very tough, even though the Ducks haven't been the Ducks of old this year.
UCLA - Very talented, very tough and well-coached, and having owned us the past three years, they have the psychological advantage.
If Helton pulls off wins in these two, yeah - give him the job.
Yes, it's a win, and yes, it's nice that we can come from behind (hur hur hur) to win games, but personally I think Helton might have hurt his case for the HC job tonight. Colorado was a 16-point underdog, we should have plowed them. Instead, they punk us in the first half and have to come back and eke out a win.
@Oregon - very tough, even though the Ducks haven't been the Ducks of old this year.
UCLA - Very talented, very tough and well-coached, and having owned us the past three years, they have the psychological advantage.
If Helton pulls off wins in these two, yeah - give him the job.