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Spread Offense

nofx94

Active Member
I'll definitely give it a whirl. Something about being a spread huddle team just seems odd, but considering what I want to do and the game's limitations, it may be necessary. I've never gotten why FB/TE is used for recruiting, but not for no-huddle
There are a handful of formations the fullback is required for in shotgun, just not a ton. Slot split, slot f wing, wing trips weak.

But I do agree that it's a strange requirement for spread offenses. It wasn't on the PS2, I don't believe, but that's neither here nor there.

I've run huddle spread before. It's like what KSU was going s couple years back when they played Oregon in the Fiesta Bowl
 

Haze88

New Member
There are a handful of formations the fullback is required for in shotgun, just not a ton. Slot split, slot f wing, wing trips weak.

But I do agree that it's a strange requirement for spread offenses. It wasn't on the PS2, I don't believe, but that's neither here nor there.

I've run huddle spread before. It's like what KSU was going s couple years back when they played Oregon in the Fiesta Bowl

My pet peeve is why is the H-back a FB in Wing Offset but a TE in Wk, with the positions not being interchangeable? I don't really need a FB if I use the depth chart and formations if the ones I want need them I'd rather not have so much difficulty
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Since I'm doing nothing but running the ball and throwing bubble screens with my triple option offense, I'm going to make my offense in the other OD be something pass based. As much as I love running the ball, I feel like I get bored if I'm doing it everywhere. I'm just not sure how best to throw.

My original idea was going to be just take my all-offset stuff and turn it into a one back UCLA/Arizona State style offense where I'm just passing and running inside zone/read if I get an empty box. But now I'm not sure if I want to do it that way. In addition to my soon to be 99 across the board QB, I have a 93 SPD true freshman ATH at QB that I could sub into the game to run some power/blast/wrap type of stuff here and there. I'll have 3 fairly athletic HBs, an elite TE (Mackey winner) and I should end up with some pretty good WRs depending on how generous training is.

I have no FB and no TE depth to run the 12/21 pro power stuff I've been running and I have just 7 OL on roster, 5 of which are Seniors, so I can't afford to play the OG/TE at TE like I did to run 12 personnel power stuff like I did most of last season. I know I want to be balanced, pass to run but still balanced. I guess the question is, how to I go about it?

Do I go legit "spread" where I'm 2x2/3x1 or just do multiple 11 personnel spread. I want to get my TE involved a lot. He's my best player. My other thought was do a multiple 11 personnel pro offense with under center ace stuff. I know what kind of concepts I want to run, just don't know how to put the pieces together in a way that actually works.
 

Haze88

New Member
Since I'm doing nothing but running the ball and throwing bubble screens with my triple option offense, I'm going to make my offense in the other OD be something pass based. As much as I love running the ball, I feel like I get bored if I'm doing it everywhere. I'm just not sure how best to throw.

My original idea was going to be just take my all-offset stuff and turn it into a one back UCLA/Arizona State style offense where I'm just passing and running inside zone/read if I get an empty box. But now I'm not sure if I want to do it that way. In addition to my soon to be 99 across the board QB, I have a 93 SPD true freshman ATH at QB that I could sub into the game to run some power/blast/wrap type of stuff here and there. I'll have 3 fairly athletic HBs, an elite TE (Mackey winner) and I should end up with some pretty good WRs depending on how generous training is.

I have no FB and no TE depth to run the 12/21 pro power stuff I've been running and I have just 7 OL on roster, 5 of which are Seniors, so I can't afford to play the OG/TE at TE like I did to run 12 personnel power stuff like I did most of last season. I know I want to be balanced, pass to run but still balanced. I guess the question is, how to I go about it?

Do I go legit "spread" where I'm 2x2/3x1 or just do multiple 11 personnel spread. I want to get my TE involved a lot. He's my best player. My other thought was do a multiple 11 personnel pro offense with under center ace stuff. I know what kind of concepts I want to run, just don't know how to put the pieces together in a way that actually works.

Run all 11 personnel and set your TE as WR4 on your depth chart and just wing it Texas Tech style
 

CoachTuck

Member
Love that fact that in ODs after a few years all the corners are replaced with guys with 93+ speed and 95+ man coverage and the route mirroring becomes unbearable, lost my last two OD games by a combined 31 points, because being an air raid guy in this game shows you no justice when guys roll up in press man or do the corny back off then press and proceed to run routes like wide outs, this is why I abandoned the air raid raid every year after NCAA 12


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TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Well, in a new twist, our Powerhouse OD file got destroyed so we ended up restarting anyway. I'm taking over Clemson (with 2015-16 rosters). That means I have Deshaun Watson at quarterback. It doesn't necessarily change anything, but Clemson does have a ton of TE and OL depth which would allow me to go power pro if necessary.

I don't know what I want to do. I made the created head coach Chip Kelly so I was kind of thinking about running a one back gun offense. My backs aren't super explosive, but I love my TEs and could use Watson in the run game. Like usual my debate is between going with my usual two back power/play action offense(s) or going with something more spread and one back. In this case, my top 4 WR and top 2 TE are probably more effective playmakers than my top tailback, who is 86 OVR but more of a downhill power runner (who I bet would do wonders in Ace).

If I went one back, I'd probably go entirely Ace and Traditional Gun. Ditch pistol, ditch the two back under center stuff I've been using here and there, ditch all my two back offset wing stuff and go entirely one back football. That is similar to what I was planning to do with Nebraska, but with Nebraska I was going to be all one back offset gun in order to take advantage of the hard hitting inside zone run game to replace the lack of QB run ability. Watson can run so I'd like to take advantage of that with power/wrap/blast. I'm not sure what a good real life example of this type of offense would be, Kelly's Eagles stuff is similar but without the QB run game. Maybe really early in Urban Meyer's UF days, before it became all Tebow all the time. I'd love it to look like Oregon's offense in Mariota's final year because I see Watson as similar to Mariota in a lot of ways, I just don't know how to make that happen within the game.

If I went two back, it would pretty much be what I'm doing now. Two back offset gun with one of those TEs as a wing plus some Pistol for power run/play action. Obviously lose the designed QB run game, but gain a more effective run game in general and it's what I am used to with minimal disruption (could easily use any of my 4 versions of the Spread-I playbook with little editing). I've uncovered some new ways to make two back offset wing gun counter incredibly effective. To the point where it's become my primary answer to aggressive option defense in my triple option offense. I probably ran Counter 15 times against Bluejay in the Sun Belt Championship in BSCFL just isolating that aggressive DE and getting a really nice arc block from the H.

I do know I want to get under center a bit more. Not necessarily to run a ton of stuff, but more to run special series of plays. I've had a ton of success jumping under center in my pro-style Spread-I and running Trap/PA TE Screen in Ace Slot Flex and running my Toss/FB Dive/PA FB Dive/FB or HB Screen series in various Strong formations. Seems like I gain huge yardage on those series every time I use them, but I don't use them a lot because I want it to be a shock play.

No matter what, I am still going to be in a spread offense, just trying to decide how best to go about it. I have 5 TE rated 74-82 OVR, all 5 are fairly athletic for the position, all 5 are fairly big, 3 of the 5 are very good pass catchers and the other two are very good blockers. Any of the group could play a wing/H-Back/FB type role, although at the moment I'm redshirting 2 just to break them up class-wise. If I want to be fairly QB run/pass based, traditional gun is obviously the only option. If I think I can get away with the only QB runs being off of read/option, then maybe I stay Pistol/Offset.

In one of my soon to be many offline test games, I ran my existing Spread I Pro offense. It wasn't bad, but it is always so hard to judge QB run game vs the CPU because the CPU has no damn clue how to defend the read or QB scrambles off of bootlegs, etc. I will say I created some really interesting pass concepts just using one or two hot routes to alter existing routes, stuff I had been toying with but never really used much in game. One of them is creating a Texas concept (where the HB runs an angle), but with the wing TE doing it using Verticals in various wing offset formation The receiver to the side the angle route is run gets hot routed to a shallow to serve as a clearout (although occasionally it is wide open vs zone) and then you hit that little angle to the TE. You usually have a deep out/vert concept backside as well.

I'm also trying to get into some more shallow/pivot stuff where I work people over with shallow cross and drive and mesh type concepts and then turn the shallow route into a pivot with all the same routes. That play exists already in Empty, but not so much in one/two back formations. I even started doing it using PA Crossers in Trio Offset. Normally I hot route the TE to a shallow and create mesh with a deep cross and post above it, but at Nebraska and my stud TE I then would compliment it by having that TE run a pivot. Great short yardage play to the boundary because most people play man against me in short yardage goal line anticipating run.

Just brainstorming and thinking out loud. The good news is I can do pretty much anything with this combo of personnel. If I wanted to run option, I could. If I wanted to run heavy pro style ala Stanford, I could. If I wanted to run air raid or a one back spread, I could. If I wanted to run a more heavy two back spread like Malzahn does, I could. That's usually when I get into the most trouble, knowing I can run anything and then trying to run everything and having nothing.
 

JSU Zack

How do I IT?
I'm taking over GT. I originally created a flexbone book for them, but everyone knows that's not going to work.

Justin Thomas has an arm, so I'm getting back to my air raid roots with a book similar to what we saw in Bedlam this weekend. It's more balanced, due to the fact the Yellow Jackets are loaded at RB. The problem is they have 0 tight ends (?!). They have an LT, Klock, that appears to be a converted TE. He's the starter, and likely at left tackle due to something weird in the roster file. He'll be going back to TE next year, but until then, he's basically a sub.

I took a flexbone style approach to selecting formations to create some continuity from PJ's "old flexbone days". There are a number of receiver alignments but generally the same concepts. The story goes after losing a lot of major recruits to spread offenses, the AD has forced PJ to convert his offense to the spread.

Here's how it looks so far:
[xtable=skin1|512x@]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td=colspan:4|256x@}Shotgun{/td}
{td=colspan:4|256x@}Pistol{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Double Flex{/td}
{td}Trey 4 WR{/td}
{td}Empty{/td}
{td}Split Slot{/td}
{td=colspan:2}Strong Slot{/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Spread Flex Weak{/td}
{td}Trey 4 WR Strong{/td}
{td}Empty Flex{/td}
{td}F Twins Over{/td}
{td}H Twins{/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Flanker Close{/td}
{td}Trips Open{/td}
{td}Emptry Flex Trey{/td}
{td}Split{/td}
{td=colspan:2}Full House{/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Tight{/td}
{td}Trips Open Strong{/td}
{td}Empty Trio{/td}
{td}Split Y Flex{/td}
{td}Train{/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td} {/td}
{td=colspan:2}Trio Open{/td}
{td=colspan:2}Split Twins{/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]
Big plays came off the air raid staples: shallow, corner, stick, screens. Some big PA like Oklahoma uses. What Oklahoma is doing now on offense is really interesting because it's closer to the Raid than what they've been in the past, but they still run the ball well. Eventually, I'll try to get personnel to fit into my pro spread, but until then, this looks like a good alternative.I did a test run against Miami and rolled all over them (35-10 in the 3rd quarter). I was able to remain surprisingly balanced without thinking about it (30 runs:30 passes). Thomas threw for 260, ran for 170. Scoddy ran for 115. Other backs combined for ~50 yards.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
I'm taking over GT. I originally created a flexbone book for them, but everyone knows that's not going to work.

Justin Thomas has an arm, so I'm getting back to my air raid roots with a book similar to what we saw in Bedlam this weekend. It's more balanced, due to the fact the Yellow Jackets are loaded at RB. The problem is they have 0 tight ends (?!). They have an LT, Klock, that appears to be a converted TE. He's the starter, and likely at left tackle due to something weird in the roster file. He'll be going back to TE next year, but until then, he's basically a sub.

I took a flexbone style approach to selecting formations to create some continuity from PJ's "old flexbone days". There are a number of receiver alignments but generally the same concepts. The story goes after losing a lot of major recruits to spread offenses, the AD has forced PJ to convert his offense to the spread.

Here's how it looks so far:
[xtable=skin1|512x@]
{tbody}
{tr}
{td=colspan:4|256x@}Shotgun{/td}
{td=colspan:4|256x@}Pistol{/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Double Flex{/td}
{td}Trey 4 WR{/td}
{td}Empty{/td}
{td}Split Slot{/td}
{td=colspan:2}Strong Slot{/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Spread Flex Weak{/td}
{td}Trey 4 WR Strong{/td}
{td}Empty Flex{/td}
{td}F Twins Over{/td}
{td}H Twins{/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Flanker Close{/td}
{td}Trips Open{/td}
{td}Emptry Flex Trey{/td}
{td}Split{/td}
{td=colspan:2}Full House{/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td}Tight{/td}
{td}Trips Open Strong{/td}
{td}Empty Trio{/td}
{td}Split Y Flex{/td}
{td}Train{/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{/tr}
{tr}
{td} {/td}
{td=colspan:2}Trio Open{/td}
{td=colspan:2}Split Twins{/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{td} {/td}
{/tr}
{/tbody}
[/xtable]
Big plays came off the air raid staples: shallow, corner, stick, screens. Some big PA like Oklahoma uses. What Oklahoma is doing now on offense is really interesting because it's closer to the Raid than what they've been in the past, but they still run the ball well. Eventually, I'll try to get personnel to fit into my pro spread, but until then, this looks like a good alternative.I did a test run against Miami and rolled all over them (35-10 in the 3rd quarter). I was able to remain surprisingly balanced without thinking about it (30 runs:30 passes). Thomas threw for 260, ran for 170. Scoddy ran for 115. Other backs combined for ~50 yards.

I can teach you the ways of the Spread-I Triple Option if you want to run option without spending all game punching yourself in the dick, which is basically what Flexbone is in this game. Had I gone with GT over there, that's what I would have done but I didn't want to be running over and over and over and over and over. The WRs and HBs block well enough on base rosters that you'd get solid perimeter blocks and add in the skill level of the FBs and you'd be in good shape.
 

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
I can teach you the ways of the Spread-I Triple Option if you want to run option without spending all game punching yourself in the dick, which is basically what Flexbone is in this game. Had I gone with GT over there, that's what I would have done but I didn't want to be running over and over and over and over and over. The WRs and HBs block well enough on base rosters that you'd get solid perimeter blocks and add in the skill level of the FBs and you'd be in good shape.
I'd like to lab/learn it... If you don't mind? I need something new to work with.

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LEGEND

Well-Known Member
Not sure if anyone knows.... But is route running the attribute that determines separation? I've seen some very slow receivers that get sick separation from elite CB's.

I understand on most routes... But what surprises me... is on take off's or streaks! I've noticed it didn't matter if it was a clean release or bump and run. The receiver always got great separation.

I ask because I have North Carolina in an OD... My fastest receiver is 89 spd but 83 acc. The rest of my receivers are around 86 spd with 90's acc. I tried going Twin TE as I'm deep at TE... But it didn't work as I suspected.

To be honest.. it was my fault it tanked. I used a custom pb with nothing but Twin TE pistol and Ace formations. My receivers look good in practice... I'm kinda scared of actual user games. I have one today... I scratched out a win with the twin TE scheme in wk one... But that user convinced me I needed more!

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nofx94

Active Member
I wish I was consistent enough a passer to run an air raid. That'd just be me throwing a bunch of interceptions. Maybe I'll make that my next challenge in a few years in my dynasty after I'm done perfecting this triple option stuff.

That's an interesting theory on route running..my top receiver is 95 ovr and 5'9" with 89 speed but he gets open on go routes.
 

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
I wish I was consistent enough a passer to run an air raid. That'd just be me throwing a bunch of interceptions. Maybe I'll make that my next challenge in a few years in my dynasty after I'm done perfecting this triple option stuff.

That's an interesting theory on route running..my top receiver is 95 ovr and 5'9" with 89 speed but he gets open on go routes.
Have you tried using coordinator cam/view? It takes some getting use to but it makes a difference in your passing!

You might want to test it out!

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nofx94

Active Member
Ya I use coordinator cam. I just get too impatient and make bad reads and forget to throw the ball away. What I'm going to do with my offense within the next few dynasty seasons is make the spread components more pro style and introduce some under center stuff and if I can get that together I might check out the air raid in the future.
 

CoachTuck

Member
Anyone have any tips on running speed option sometimes I end up getting a pitch read I go to pitch it and it the hits the end


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nofx94

Active Member
Anyone have any tips on running speed option sometimes I end up getting a pitch read I go to pitch it and it the hits the end


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Just wait longer on the pitches. Run it like a triple option that's already has the first part taken care of. And also remember it's not as reliable as a regular zone-read. I know that all sounds obvious, but it's all I can think of. If you keep it for medium to large gains enough times the defense will open up to your pitch man
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
I'd like to lab/learn it... If you don't mind? I need something new to work with.

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The playbook for it is on the bottom of page 4 in my Spread-I 2.0 thread. I'm going to be going through to make some updates on it soon but that's the core. The main key is being familiar with your quick audibles in each formation, I noted that they are in the playbook graph. If people are loading the box, you have to be able to get the ball out on the perimeter with screens.

I start each game just probing the defense to see how they'll react to certain things. I'll typically run a fairly standard read option out of Split Offset (to either direction) on the first play of the game to see if the defense is in aggressive/conservative option defense. If I happen to catch them in conservative, I'll typically go hurry-up, no-huddle and run as many option plays as I can get off in a row. If they are aggressive, it is right back to the huddle. I'll usually go to one of my closed TE formations next, Trio Offset typically being the winner. I want to see how the defense aligns to closed trips. For people running 425/335, closed trips can be devastating. If I picked just 5 formations to run the whole offense from, Trio Offset would be one of the 5.

In terms of actually running plays, you're really just dividing the field in half and running towards numbers. Offset Gun Inside Zone/Read/Option plays are not unlike inside veer in that everything is being run towards the read side. Your aim point for the diveback is the A Gap (between C and G) on the side you're reading, looking to cutback through the B Gap. Rarely you'll get a play where you end up bouncing it away from the read side, similar to an outside zone read option would be, but that happens maybe once a game.

My primary series of plays in this offense is starting in Wing Trips Offset Wk Lead Read Option. If I have numbers as is, I'll just run it. If I have numbers to the right, I will audible to Split Y Offset Triple Option Right and run it that way. If I motion the slot into the backfield vs motion and the defense resets, I can either check back to Triple to the Left or just check to a an inside zone split iso play which is my quick audible. I do the same thing with 4WR Trio to Split Offset, although that may change as I adjust the playbook going forward.

Mainly you're looking to keep teams off balance with your formations and making them wrong no matter what using quick and preset audibles. You're never going to fool people with plays, everything is inside zone or counter based, you have to be able to probe and read the defense and set plays up.

Depth chart and formation sub/package sub set-up is very important as well, but without being able to look at an individual roster that is tough for me to advise on.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Anyone have any tips on running speed option sometimes I end up getting a pitch read I go to pitch it and it the hits the end


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If you're playing against users, it helps having an idea if they are aggressive or conservative option defense. Speed Option is my primary answer to aggressive option defense taking away my triple option game, because most people sit in aggressive option defense, I already have a head start on what the read will be.

If you're playing the CPU or a user who mixes it up, the best way to run speed option is to press the outside shoulder of the guy you're reading. That will prevent the pitches off of the read man. Make him commit one way or the other, once you get familiar with it it becomes easy. There are times when the DE will actually get caught in between and you can just run past him and pitch off the next guy.

The other thing with speed option is to try to run it towards the side of the field where there happens to be an overhang player down on the line of scrimmage. Against 425/335 defenses in particular, if that SS drops down to the line of scrimmage, he'll become the read man and that makes it a really long, clean read. Depending on what formations you're running speed option out of, don't be afraid to flip it either. It doesn't work in traditional gun but in offset and pistol, you can flip the speed option cleanly and end up in a nice pitch relationship.
 

nofx94

Active Member
First option drive: 3 & out
Somebody, I think Husker, posted a video from Remember the Titans. "It's like novacaine. Just give it time, always works."

What would you say has been the offensive system or philosophy that was easiest for you to learn?
 

JSU Zack

How do I IT?
Air Raid with the Flexbone 2nd.

I understand all the systems except RNS. I've probably spent enough time studying film and reading books on offense to have a bachelors in it.

If IT wasn't so lucrative, sports management would have been my 2nd choice.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
First option drive: 3 & out

My first drive is usually just an intelligence gathering mission. I'm sending scouts behind enemy lines to learn about their defenses for the following attack. If I happen to score on the first drive, great, but it is more important to see how the defense is going to react to certain things.
 

nofx94

Active Member
That's pretty dope. I need to check out your blog again. And to go through the air raid thread again
 

JSU Zack

How do I IT?
That's pretty dope. I need to check out your blog again. And to go through the air raid thread again

90% of my blog is my Pick 'Em league and IT. But I do have some nuggets. I have a lot in my brain but not enough time to write it down.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Spent some time testing out a one back offense that was Ace and traditional Gun mixed together and I just couldn't get a feel for it. The pass game is great, there are some really cool pass concepts in traditional gun but they aren't good enough to make up for the run game. After playing around a ton with Deshaun Watson, I don't think he's quite a good enough runner for me to feature runner with designed QB runs (blast, power, wrap), the athleticism is there but the low carry rating has me worried a bit. I already had one fumble in my first game. Did have some fun running outside zone sweeps out of Y Trips, but that isn't enough to justify going full traditional gun.

Interestingly enough, the best part was the under center ace stuff. I had a ton of fun running inside and outside zone under center and there are some really cool play action passes off of stretch. Those routes where the outside WR effectively runs a < just destroy man. There may be something there where I blend my typical offset stuff with Ace, rather than Pistol. Boise comes to mind as a team that does some interesting blending between the two.
 

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
I can't believe that as much as I like using motion... That I've never thought of using audibles as a way to motion! It would really help me with getting into looks and plays I want. I create shotgun trio but don't have it in my playbook....

I would like to use shotgun trio in my offense... So now when I motion to the look... I can actually audible to it. Now I can attack those areas that Just using motion wouldn't allow me to.

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nofx94

Active Member
Question about running ace 12 personnel out of shotgun, ie big, big flip, twins, twin te, etc, etc...

Have y'all found these to be affective for running "pro-spread" style stuff?
 

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
It's been a while since I used it... Can't remember actual glitch. It had something to do with on the hash if I remember correctly?

Someone else mentioned it... I had never had a problem then all the sudden it happened. But it was so long ago I forgot what happened.

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JSU Zack

How do I IT?
It's been a while since I used it... Can't remember actual glitch. It had something to do with on the hash if I remember correctly?

Someone else mentioned it... I had never had a problem then all the sudden it happened. But it was so long ago I forgot what happened.

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I know some formations do weird things with the wide receiver splits depending on where you are on the field. Some formations have the location "hard-coded" to a spot on the field, and other formations have splits relative to the end man on the line of scrimmage.

I found a youtube video a few months ago circa 2003 with one of the EA programmers explaining the field is coded as a 2D grid with X,Y coordinates.
 

LEGEND

Well-Known Member
I know some formations do weird things with the wide receiver splits depending on where you are on the field. Some formations have the location "hard-coded" to a spot on the field, and other formations have splits relative to the end man on the line of scrimmage.

I found a youtube video a few months ago circa 2003 with one of the EA programmers explaining the field is coded as a 2D grid with X,Y coordinates.
That may be what the problem was... It had something to do with the alignment.

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CoachTuck

Member
Thinking about putting together something Chad Morris/Mazzone like, some 2 back pistol, 2x2 spread; then start going into 3x1 sets by audibles to see if they're covering the slot if not just throw the bubble if so either Dive/IZ,Trap,Counter if go to 3x1 and all WR are covered just run option
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Thinking about putting together something Chad Morris/Mazzone like, some 2 back pistol, 2x2 spread; then start going into 3x1 sets by audibles to see if they're covering the slot if not just throw the bubble if so either Dive/IZ,Trap,Counter if go to 3x1 and all WR are covered just run option

I wish I could manage a 2x2 and 3x1 only spread offense, with some special formations for certain situations. I like formations too much to do it though. That would work though, you don't need to do a whole lot and if the audible/motion from 2x2 to 3x1 is seamless, it would be a great way to do it. Defense would have to declare its coverage with the audible. Great way to counter 425/335 as well.

Maybe some day I'll do that, I don't have the passing ability to spend an entire game in 10 personnel.
 

CoachTuck

Member
I'm sure you know enough air raid to get you by and spread flex to 4wr trio str is as seamless as it gets


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TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
I'm sure you know enough air raid to get you by and spread flex to 4wr trio str is as seamless as it gets


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I may try it soon in Powerhouse.

I decided to go super Harbaugh but the amount of time it is taking me to actually get the playbook together is silly and it is a bloated playbook to begin with. It is two back power plus QB power run game in the gun. It really isn't bad and it has been successful but it is boring and when you're dealing with 9 formation groupings, it is tough to organize a playbook. I had been using my old Osborne offense with just Ace, I, Power/Maryland I, plus Pistol in place of Gun and it was successful but it gets tough at times, especially when QBA 5 is kicking my ass.

I'd love to revert to something just absurdly simple. Clemson in Powerhouse may not be the best place for that since I have really good TEs and my WRs have been playing like garbage but depending on how this shakes out we'll see. I have Deshaun Watson and I threw for 37 yards and ran for 16 with him in my last user game. I won, rushing my HB 31 times, but that probably isn't the best use of my resources.
 

CoachTuck

Member
I may try it soon in Powerhouse.

I decided to go super Harbaugh but the amount of time it is taking me to actually get the playbook together is silly and it is a bloated playbook to begin with. It is two back power plus QB power run game in the gun. It really isn't bad and it has been successful but it is boring and when you're dealing with 9 formation groupings, it is tough to organize a playbook. I had been using my old Osborne offense with just Ace, I, Power/Maryland I, plus Pistol in place of Gun and it was successful but it gets tough at times, especially when QBA 5 is kicking my ass.

I'd love to revert to something just absurdly simple. Clemson in Powerhouse may not be the best place for that since I have really good TEs and my WRs have been playing like garbage but depending on how this shakes out we'll see. I have Deshaun Watson and I threw for 37 yards and ran for 16 with him in my last user game. I won, rushing my HB 31 times, but that probably isn't the best use of my resources.
Been working on it today going from 10 personnel 2x2 to 3x1 has been a dream so far and its causing a lot of exaggerated responses from users, ill come out in whatever run I'm feeling at the moment based on the looks ive been getting and usually as soon as I see 1 high id go 3x1 to make the formation unbalanced and if they ever so happen to be in anything such as a balanced Cover 3 or cover 0 the slots uncovered so just toss him the bubble or the flanker the flash screen, if hes covered just audible to the option and play 6 on 6 football, either they'll revert to two high man to man and ill gash them on the ground or they'll take the FS whos supposed to be covering the #3 receiver and man him up tighter leaving a clean no deep read for deep in breaking routes as the FS can no longer just roam around, from two back pistol its a little sticky because going to 3x1 makes the Hback the bubble receiver and I don't mind because in this game big guys and space do some damage but then I also get the advantage of somewhat of a power run game from pistol and the use of the F Lead Read Options; if they stay in any nickel package prepare to throw to the perimeter often and the moment they go to dime let your RB work
 
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JSU Zack

How do I IT?
Great breakdown. I've never seen someone actually explain the slow screen, so that was great for me. Is the Pac-12 Network secretly good?
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Great breakdown. I've never seen someone actually explain the slow screen, so that was great for me. Is the Pac-12 Network secretly good?

Neuheisel can't coach his way out of a paper bag but he's really, really good on P12N. I wish the other conference networks did more stuff like that, just a coach on screen with a white board or in this case sugar packets on a table, explaining concepts a team runs. BTN and SEC network are both awful about stuff like that, it is mostly puff pieces.

ESPN used to be good about getting coaches on and have them just talk schemes. When Urban Meyer was on ESPN, they had him in a filmroom setting ala Jon Gruden and would talk scheme with a coach for whatever game was being featured that week. I remember one that was Urban and Chip Kelly that was awesome. I think they had Gus Malzahn on once explaining about how to attack Alabama's defense one time as well. They do it more during championship weeks and bowl weeks when coaches are off but it was always great. When ESPN did that coaches round table thing during the national championship last year with Mike Riley and a few others it was fantastic.

Coaches allowed to just talk football instead of blow sunshine up everyones ass with sound bites always makes for good TV.
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
Been working on it today going from 10 personnel 2x2 to 3x1 has been a dream so far and its causing a lot of exaggerated responses from users, ill come out in whatever run I'm feeling at the moment based on the looks ive been getting and usually as soon as I see 1 high id go 3x1 to make the formation unbalanced and if they ever so happen to be in anything such as a balanced Cover 3 or cover 0 the slots uncovered so just toss him the bubble or the flanker the flash screen, if hes covered just audible to the option and play 6 on 6 football, either they'll revert to two high man to man and ill gash them on the ground or they'll take the FS whos supposed to be covering the #3 receiver and man him up tighter leaving a clean no deep read for deep in breaking routes as the FS can no longer just roam around, from two back pistol its a little sticky because going to 3x1 makes the Hback the bubble receiver and I don't mind because in this game big guys and space do some damage but then I also get the advantage of somewhat of a power run game from pistol and the use of the F Lead Read Options; if they stay in any nickel package prepare to throw to the perimeter often and the moment they go to dime let your RB work


I think I might transition to something like this at Clemson. I spent all this time putting together a Harbaugh-y mashup offense that is 21/22/12/13/14/Jumbo personnel to be power run, feature my power running HB and isolate my WRs on the perimeter... and then my HB hurt himself in the game I played tonight. I have better personnel than most people in the OD, I shouldn't be playing in a box.

I lost because my offense went into a complete shell and people are just abusing the hell out of Bear fronts and walking FS down. That's obnoxious because it shouldn't work but with power/counter blocking schemes broken it ends up being deadly to the zone game because you get no double teams and someone gets free run through.

I threw fairly well in the game, 11 of 13 for like 150 yards, most to my great outside WR who is really good about breaking press. But once my HB went down, the other user didn't really need to dedicate as many players to stopping the run and was able to keep two high much of the game without losing much run support.

How would you integrate a TE into this? I have 5 TE, 2 are redshirting but the other 3 are really good pass catcher types. One is currently my FB in my under center power offense and would make for a good win in my Spread-I if I went that route but I'd like to keep it simple.

I was thinking one way would be to expand on your Spread Flex to 4WR Trio Str audible and include Wing Offset or Wing Offset Wk to 4Wr Trio Str/Wk as well. If I have numbers, just run the play as is with my H in the backfield for split zone/read slice... if not, audible him out of the backfield to throw bubble, etc. I think it would still be a seamless audible, I've done the reverse of it in my option offense (4WR Trio to Wing Offset Wk) and it was fine.

Either way, I need to use Watson more. He's too good of a QB to waste handing the ball off and I can't afford to be in a shell all game long just grinding out 3 yards at a time against teams I should be crushing.
 

CoachTuck

Member
I think I might transition to something like this at Clemson. I spent all this time putting together a Harbaugh-y mashup offense that is 21/22/12/13/14/Jumbo personnel to be power run, feature my power running HB and isolate my WRs on the perimeter... and then my HB hurt himself in the game I played tonight. I have better personnel than most people in the OD, I shouldn't be playing in a box.

I lost because my offense went into a complete shell and people are just abusing the hell out of Bear fronts and walking FS down. That's obnoxious because it shouldn't work but with power/counter blocking schemes broken it ends up being deadly to the zone game because you get no double teams and someone gets free run through.

I threw fairly well in the game, 11 of 13 for like 150 yards, most to my great outside WR who is really good about breaking press. But once my HB went down, the other user didn't really need to dedicate as many players to stopping the run and was able to keep two high much of the game without losing much run support.

How would you integrate a TE into this? I have 5 TE, 2 are redshirting but the other 3 are really good pass catcher types. One is currently my FB in my under center power offense and would make for a good win in my Spread-I if I went that route but I'd like to keep it simple.

I was thinking one way would be to expand on your Spread Flex to 4WR Trio Str audible and include Wing Offset or Wing Offset Wk to 4Wr Trio Str/Wk as well. If I have numbers, just run the play as is with my H in the backfield for split zone/read slice... if not, audible him out of the backfield to throw bubble, etc. I think it would still be a seamless audible, I've done the reverse of it in my option offense (4WR Trio to Wing Offset Wk) and it was fine.

Either way, I need to use Watson more. He's too good of a QB to waste handing the ball off and I can't afford to be in a shell all game long just grinding out 3 yards at a time against teams I should be crushing.
In terms of TEs I would try to get them locked into the middle slot or #2 receiver in trips formations because more often not the player covering down on the slot is either an OLB/SS or corner and even a TE with not the best block ratings can easily handle them I took a bubble 40 yards because the TE pancaked the SS then worked to the FS, my thing is that even a bear front cant adequately cover an unbalanced offensive look if I keep getting the look for a bubble that means the box isn't in my favor so I have to rectify that, I even sometimes but the bubble receiver on a hitch and flick it to him
 

TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
In terms of TEs I would try to get them locked into the middle slot or #2 receiver in trips formations because more often not the player covering down on the slot is either an OLB/SS or corner and even a TE with not the best block ratings can easily handle them I took a bubble 40 yards because the TE pancaked the SS then worked to the FS, my thing is that even a bear front cant adequately cover an unbalanced offensive look if I keep getting the look for a bubble that means the box isn't in my favor so I have to rectify that, I even sometimes but the bubble receiver on a hitch and flick it to him

In my triple option offense where I have a ton of TEs, I actually have TEs as the middle slot and outside WR in 4WR Trio/Str and my slotback in the inner slot to throw bubble. The blocking is devastating. Maybe that's a better idea, get the TE as the middle slot in 4WR Trio and the right slot player in Spread Flex (which is an available package).

I was also thinking about ways to get the ball to certain players, specifically receivers. The biggest weakness in my spread offenses is my inability to get the ball to perimeter receivers. So many people play press that the now screen game is gone and unless they have great press break, getting the ball to them with verts and can be tough.

That Neuheisel video gave me a good idea though, using the orbit motion out of the backfield that is in Split Y Offset, Split Offset and Slot Offset. Instead of having the orbit player be a back, formation sub a receiver back there. Essentially:

----WR-------------T-G-C-G-T------------------------WR----
-------------------------------------------TE------------------
--------------------------Q------------------------------------
-----------------------WR-HB---------------------------------

That would let me throw swing screens and have some three man triangle concepts with a WR in the backfield. Clemson did it with Sammy Watkins a lot, I don't have anyone quite that quick but the idea would remain the same.

As much as I want to be running my two back, multiple TE power offense it just feels like a waste of Watson and my HB depth just went out the window.
 

CoachTuck

Member
As a scary as it seems i call the FL/SE screens against press all the time if I still have the numbers advantage


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TXHusker05

Well-Known Member
NCAA Moderator
@TXHusker05 Charleston Southern, JSU's opponent this week, runs your offense!

My full breakdown with film: http://cockynation.com/2015/12/08/analyzing-csus-triple-option/

It's beautiful :love:

Yeah that's pretty much it. Gun Triple, finding about a thousand different ways to get into a split backfield to run split triple. I do need to start finding a way to run slot option without motion though, treat it as the equivalent of the zone read + bubble packaged plays.

I do wish there were some tackle trap or power o plays paired with a read in offset gun. That's something New Mexico has done really well, running trap reads and tight power with a read. In some of the UNM cut-ups on Youtube you can find really good examples of them running a trap double option with a reverse pivot. They don't read EMOL, just trap him and have a called trap off it and then a called double option off of it. Same as Nebraska used to do.
 

guardman23

Well-Known Member
It's beautiful :love:

Yeah that's pretty much it. Gun Triple, finding about a thousand different ways to get into a split backfield to run split triple. I do need to start finding a way to run slot option without motion though, treat it as the equivalent of the zone read + bubble packaged plays.

I do wish there were some tackle trap or power o plays paired with a read in offset gun. That's something New Mexico has done really well, running trap reads and tight power with a read. In some of the UNM cut-ups on Youtube you can find really good examples of them running a trap double option with a reverse pivot. They don't read EMOL, just trap him and have a called trap off it and then a called double option off of it. Same as Nebraska used to do.
I'm gonna do something like this since you can't throw worth a damn with Qba 5
 
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