Spread Offense

[PSUEagle]

How did you get Cross Buck to be your run audible? I can't get anything else except the inside zone to HB1 as the quick run. I assume I'd have to remove that or reorder things?

The best way to control the quick audibles in Split Offset is to put the passes you want on the top row. If the plays are buried in the bottom of that formation, it'll get jacked up. The exception to that being the deep pass play, which doesn't seem to matter or make any sense whatsoever.

In my Gun Triple, my quick audibles are HB Dive, PA Read, Y Corner, PA WR Screen. Works great for that offense. In a perfect world, I'd have HB Counter as my quick run and then FB Angle in there somewhere.

I don't use any runs other than Buck, IZ Split, and Counter Trey so that might be part of that. Have found that the lead zone plays like Off Tackle are basically worthless for me: HB2/FB never blocks anyone. And I also use zero option plays of any kind: don't like the idea of users dictating keep reads when I run a Pro Style/Passing oriented offense, anyway.

 

[TXHusker05]

I don't use any runs other than Buck, IZ Split, and Counter Trey so that might be part of that. Have found that the lead zone plays like Off Tackle are basically worthless for me: HB2/FB never blocks anyone. And I also use zero option plays of any kind: don't like the idea of users dictating keep reads when I run a Pro Style/Passing oriented offense, anyway.

I may have to try that. In my Gun Triple, I have the full contingent of runs in Split Offset.

Counter-Off Tackle-Power
FB Inside-Cross Buck-Split Zone
Read Lt-Wrap-Read Rt
Triple Lt-Shovel-Triple Rt

In my more balanced offenses, I'll dump the last line of runs and replace it with more pass plays.

It used to be that whichever runs you put highest would be the quick run audible, I always hope to get Counter, but I think Off Tackle might override that. I wonder what will happen if I pull Off Tackle but leave everything else. I like Off Tackle in my Gun Triple since that more of less serves as a belly play, but I wouldn't mind getting Cross Buck or Split Zone up there instead.

 

[nofx94]

So it's possible to control formation audibles? Never knew that

 

[bruin228]

If you're willing to spend a ridiculous amount of time, yes.

 

[nofx94]

So there's more to it than just putting the ones you want at the top?

 

[bruin228]

Maybe not, but I remember it being a big pain. I'm always stuck with HB Counter out of Trio 4WR no matter what I do.

 

[TXHusker05]

Maybe not, but I remember it being a big pain. I'm always stuck with HB Counter out of Trio 4WR no matter what I do.

If Counter is in that formation, it will always be the quick run audible. If you take it out, QB Wrap will be the quick run audible (which is what I have). I wanted Wrap more than I wanted Counter. If you take both out, then I think it goes to read. 4WR Trio is one of the few offset formations that does not default to inside zone/dive/off tackle.

 

[TXHusker05]

So there's more to it than just putting the ones you want at the top?

Yes, I believe Split Offset is the only formation that is impacted by putting plays at the top. Most formations seem to have a priority list of plays that automatically default to quick audibles. Finding what plays those are and what the priority is takes an awful lot of trial and error. It took me a solid two hours of back and forth between playbooks and practice to get the quick audibles right in my Spread-I Triple offense and those are relatively small formations.

 

[bruin228]

Anyone know if you can get this look in 14?

 

[JSU Zack]

Maybe not, but I remember it being a big pain. I'm always stuck with HB Counter out of Trio 4WR no matter what I do.

The only reason I don't use that formation. I use Trips HB Wk instead.

 

[TXHusker05]

View attachment 1908

Anyone know if you can get this look in 14?

Best bet would be Empty Wing Trio with the solo WR motioned in as far as he'll go. I guess a closed trips formation would work too. If that in motion player is a TE, could always put a TE at HB for protection/screen/pass route stuff and blocking on Blast or Q Power.

 

[LEGEND]

Yes, I believe Split Offset is the only formation that is impacted by putting plays at the top. Most formations seem to have a priority list of plays that automatically default to quick audibles. Finding what plays those are and what the priority is takes an awful lot of trial and error. It took me a solid two hours of back and forth between playbooks and practice to get the quick audibles right in my Spread-I Triple offense and those are relatively small formations.

Is it really worth all the effort? I've gone to a no huddle non hurry up scheme. So for me... since I'm not hurrying... it might not be worth all the effort.

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[LEGEND]

View attachment 1908

Anyone know if you can get this look in 14?

I think I've gotten that look before... I can't remember what formation though. I'll try and figure it out when I get home. Can't really picture formations in my head right now!

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[LEGEND]

Best bet would be Empty Wing Trio with the solo WR motioned in as far as he'll go. I guess a closed trips formation would work too. If that in motion player is a TE, could always put a TE at HB for protection/screen/pass route stuff and blocking on Blast or Q Power.

I think it was one of the closed formations I got it from. I know It wasn't from an empty set.

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[TXHusker05]

Is it really worth all the effort? I've gone to a no huddle non hurry up scheme. So for me... since I'm not hurrying... it might not be worth all the effort.

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It is worth it for me because even when I'm not running HUNH, I'm still running a huge chunk of my offense at the line of scrimmage. Everything I do has some sort of 'check with me' aspect to it. The more "good" in-formation quick audibles I can have the better the offense is.

In my Gun Triple offense, I huddle every play but did everything I could to load up on screens plays as in-formation quick audibles so I could attack loaded box/blitz looks. Even if it meant removing every drop back pass in the formation to do it. Having good in-formation audibles in that offense was very important. In my other offenses, it is a little less important to have perfect in-formation quick audibles because my offense is more diverse.

 

[LEGEND]

In a couple of my OD's... I've gone to a offensive lineman as my 2nd TE in Twin TE formations. I have some athletic linemen and wanted better run blocking.

It has worked like a charm! They do a great job on wailing off the edge... And have caught passes too! I have one who is 6'6 290 lbs with 91 acceleration an d 78 speed. I'm going to start looking for these guys to convert to TE

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[nofx94]

In a couple of my OD's... I've gone to a offensive lineman as my 2nd TE in Twin TE formations. I have some athletic linemen and wanted better run blocking.

It has worked like a charm! They do a great job on wailing off the edge... And have caught passes too! I have one who is 6'6 290 lbs with 91 acceleration an d 78 speed. I'm going to start looking for these guys to convert to TE

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That's an excellent thought. I'm torn between (1) trying to limit my schollies because I think my over signing is hurting the CPU and (2) trying to experiment with different player types for the personnel conversions I want to attempt. Buck sweep from twin TE slot is one of my favorite plays. I had a Sugar Bowl against BYU where I scored 84 points and had three guys over 100/I think two over 200. That play was key. They were 80-something OVR and we were high 90s and I've since changed the sliders, but that was the most fun I've had taken out my aggression of not making a natty...

Now to add something more relevant:
I've been working on a pro-style book but I ended up just building a multiple book based on the fact that my current personnel and general recruiting ideology is going to force me to be more one-back oriented generally, and I inevitably find myself running option. Though I do have a little bit of 20 mixed in from pistol and shotgun.

What I've been working on most recently is limiting my passing concepts. Simplifying it because I always end up ruining a perfectly good passing offense down the field it with a stupid interception. I think my problem is in part running too many passes in a row but I think it also has to do with running too many concepts. So I've simplified my offense (somewhat, there was more replacement of plays than removal but such is life) such that the passing is screens and swings, curls, slants, stick, spacing, slot cross (one of my favorites from any set), PA read/slide, and then flood and smash. Then I have Bench for whenever I run I (almost never because my fullbacks suck right now) and deep outs from ace spread. I dig the PA wheel stuff in split slot (and I've got some wheel and switch stuff), but I might have to take that out for simplicity's sake.

In many ways I think I'm just running too much stuff, but at this point I'm just trying to get my passing game briefer. I love stretching the field vertically but I need to minimize my mistakes.

What are some of the passing concepts y'all like a lot? Things you find fundamental or essential?

 

[TXHusker05]

In a couple of my OD's... I've gone to a offensive lineman as my 2nd TE in Twin TE formations. I have some athletic linemen and wanted better run blocking.

It has worked like a charm! They do a great job on wailing off the edge... And have caught passes too! I have one who is 6'6 290 lbs with 91 acceleration an d 78 speed. I'm going to start looking for these guys to convert to TE

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That's what I am doing in Powerhouse now. I've experimented with it some in the past but this season I only had one true TE but still wanted to run my two TE sets. I started by moving two backup OL to TE in the off-season, just so I could get some run blocking on the field but keep the "TE" in the personnel package screen.

The last few weeks I've moved my starting right guard to TE2. He is quite athletic and actually a good TE with good pass catch ratings. Sounds very similar to your guy. I elected not to move him this off-season because I needed him at guard, but he has struggled there because of the awareness problem so I decided I'd cut my losses and make him my 2nd TE and give him an eligible number. So far so good. He's a great blocker on the edge, but I can use a combination of packages to move him around or take him off the field for a 3rd receiver without needing to dedicate hard formation subs to it. This season I'll probably just move him to TE permanently. That may change if I end up grabbing this Freshman TE I've been recruiting but that isn't looking too good.

 

[LEGEND]

View attachment 1908

Anyone know if you can get this look in 14?

@bruin228. Have you tried the tight or close formations? It may have been one of those I used with motion to get that look.

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[LEGEND]

That's an excellent thought. I'm torn between (1) trying to limit my schollies because I think my over signing is hurting the CPU and (2) trying to experiment with different player types for the personnel conversions I want to attempt. Buck sweep from twin TE slot is one of my favorite plays. I had a Sugar Bowl against BYU where I scored 84 points and had three guys over 100/I think two over 200. That play was key. They were 80-something OVR and we were high 90s and I've since changed the sliders, but that was the most fun I've had taken out my aggression of not making a natty...

Now to add something more relevant:
I've been working on a pro-style book but I ended up just building a multiple book based on the fact that my current personnel and general recruiting ideology is going to force me to be more one-back oriented generally, and I inevitably find myself running option. Though I do have a little bit of 20 mixed in from pistol and shotgun.

What I've been working on most recently is limiting my passing concepts. Simplifying it because I always end up ruining a perfectly good passing offense down the field it with a stupid interception. I think my problem is in part running too many passes in a row but I think it also has to do with running too many concepts. So I've simplified my offense (somewhat, there was more replacement of plays than removal but such is life) such that the passing is screens and swings, curls, slants, stick, spacing, slot cross (one of my favorites from any set), PA read/slide, and then flood and smash. Then I have Bench for whenever I run I (almost never because my fullbacks suck right now) and deep outs from ace spread. I dig the PA wheel stuff in split slot (and I've got some wheel and switch stuff), but I might have to take that out for simplicity's sake.

In many ways I think I'm just running too much stuff, but at this point I'm just trying to get my passing game briefer. I love stretching the field vertically but I need to minimize my mistakes.

What are some of the passing concepts y'all like a lot? Things you find fundamental or essential?

I love smash and levels! I'm always trying to create different ways to use them. My biggest problem is.. I use smash way too much! I need to use levels more... I use it usually once a game. I've started using spot more here lately too!

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[TXHusker05]

I love smash and levels! I'm always trying to create different ways to use them. My biggest problem is.. I use smash way too much! I need to use levels more... I use it usually once a game. I've started using spot more here lately too!

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Yeah Smash is a money concept in this game, it becomes very easy to overuse it. Vs Man, that smash corner route is easy money as long as there is no route mirroring. Vs Zone, you can usually hit that hitch or if you're in 3x1 hit that seam. Smash and Z Spot are two pass plays I use way too much.

Since you like Smash and Levels, you should try to find the Double China concept in your formations. It might also be called Y Corner in a few formations. Since the simsports website is gone I don't have the art, but this is what it looks like:

Two ins with a smash corner above it. Really easy read. One of the two ins will come open vs zone, that smash corner wrecks man because it is usually vs a LB or strong safety. Since you like Smash and Levels, this is a really great third concept to mix in that sort of blends the two. It is obviously only in 3x1 sets, but I assume you have Y Trips and a few others in your offense.

The Y Corner concept in 2x1 and 2x2 sets are really good as well. Slant with the smash corner above it and then usually a pivot/post concept backside. I think you'd like adding Double China and Y Corner a lot, the reads will come naturally to you if you're used to smash, spot and levels.

 

[LEGEND]

@TXHusker05, I want to add jet sweeps to my no huddle scheme. How do you get them to work without the QB whiffing the handoff?



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[bruin228]

You can't flip them.

 

[TXHusker05]

@TXHusker05, I want to add jet sweeps to my no huddle scheme. How do you get them to work without the QB whiffing the handoff?



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What @bruin228 said, only run them left to right. If you flip the formation and run them right to left, you're in trouble. I don't run a ton of up-tempo these days and even when I did, I rarely ran jet just so I didn't risk a blown hand-off.

What I would do is run Jet out of the huddle, but then when I went up-tempo, I would run fake Jet Dive or PA Jet plays. Get the same jet action but run something else that isn't a glitched out mess.

 

[Haze88]

Wish I had a 360 to lab with some users but I've had some fun sprinkling in the Monster series in one of my playbooks. That flash screen works lovely against off coverage

 

[LEGEND]

Been running more QB blast and power against users. Been having some decent success with it. I don't have any elite athletes at the QB spot though! I have guys with 75-80 speed. I'm still cranking out 50 yd runs here and there.

I'm trying to do what North Carolina has been doing this season and Kansas state did several yrs back. More QB runs with some triple and read option sprinkled in.

@TXHusker05 been a while since I played you... So I can't remember. Do you run much speed option from the Shotgun?

I know you don't run much traditional gun though... So I may just need to try myself.

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[TXHusker05]

Been running more QB blast and power against users. Been having some decent success with it. I don't have any elite athletes at the QB spot though! I have guys with 75-80 speed. I'm still cranking out 50 yd runs here and there.

I'm trying to do what North Carolina has been doing this season and Kansas state did several yrs back. More QB runs with some triple and read option sprinkled in.

@TXHusker05 been a while since I played you... So I can't remember. Do you run much speed option from the Shotgun?

I know you don't run much traditional gun though... So I may just need to try myself.

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I run a TON of speed option from the Offset Gun and Lead option (with the G pull) from the Pistol. More so in my Spread I Triple offense, but I run Pistol Lead Option out of Ace Twins, Twin TE Slot and Trips even in my pro style offense. That Pistol Lead Option might honestly be my favorite play in the game. The defense is always wrong and no matter what you have a lead blocker out front. It is a very forgiving read as well, there are times where I have misread it and kept with the QB despite a pitch read and was still able to slip under the read key and get to the second level. I've also taken to running the motion load option play in Spread Flex some, for a lot of the same reasons.

Speed/Lead/Load Option is my primary counter to aggressive option defense users. If you're going to take away my read/triple game, I'm going to run speed/lead/load, attack the outside shoulder of the read man and pitch off him to get the ball outside in space. I find it is the best way for me to get the ball on the perimeter without throwing. I prefer it in both Pistol and Offset Gun because it can be safely flipped at the line of scrimmage to be run either direction. I'm not sure if that is the case in traditional gun and even if it were, the pitch relationship would be a disaster.

One of my favorite things to do in Offset Gun is to flip speed option away from the back's alignment. The users in our ODs always overshift to the back's alignment in Offset Gun because they know damn well there aren't any designed weakside run plays in Offset. If you flip Speed Option, you still get a really good pitch relationship but can attack the overshifted defense. If you run it out of a stack wing formation (Wing Trips Offset or Wing Offset for example), you can motion the H as well to turn speed option into a load option.

I wish I ran speed/lead/load more, it is something that is always money for me but I seem to get away from it too often.

 

[LEGEND]

I run a TON of speed option from the Offset Gun and Lead option (with the G pull) from the Pistol. More so in my Spread I Triple offense, but I run Pistol Lead Option out of Ace Twins, Twin TE Slot and Trips even in my pro style offense. That Pistol Lead Option might honestly be my favorite play in the game. The defense is always wrong and no matter what you have a lead blocker out front. It is a very forgiving read as well, there are times where I have misread it and kept with the QB despite a pitch read and was still able to slip under the read key and get to the second level. I've also taken to running the motion load option play in Spread Flex some, for a lot of the same reasons.

Speed/Lead/Load Option is my primary counter to aggressive option defense users. If you're going to take away my read/triple game, I'm going to run speed/lead/load, attack the outside shoulder of the read man and pitch off him to get the ball outside in space. I find it is the best way for me to get the ball on the perimeter without throwing. I prefer it in both Pistol and Offset Gun because it can be safely flipped at the line of scrimmage to be run either direction. I'm not sure if that is the case in traditional gun and even if it were, the pitch relationship would be a disaster.

One of my favorite things to do in Offset Gun is to flip speed option away from the back's alignment. The users in our ODs always overshift to the back's alignment in Offset Gun because they know damn well there aren't any designed weakside run plays in Offset. If you flip Speed Option, you still get a really good pitch relationship but can attack the overshifted defense. If you run it out of a stack wing formation (Wing Trips Offset or Wing Offset for example), you can motion the H as well to turn speed option into a load option.

I wish I ran speed/lead/load more, it is something that is always money for me but I seem to get away from it too often.

I'm starting to run more load/speed option... Mixed with QB wrap, power, and read, it's been pretty explosive.

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[TXHusker05]

I'm starting to run more load/speed option... Mixed with QB wrap, power, and read, it's been pretty explosive.

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I mean if you have the quarterback to design a legit QB run game around, there is no more deadly offense in the game. Early on in NCAA 14, I think the first year it came out, and I we had that lower level OD where I was New Mexico. I ran a QB centric offense for four straight seasons where I must have run my QB 25-30 times a game. If you look at what @bluejay13 is doing in Powerhouse it isn't that different. It is Q Power, some Q Wrap, a little option sprinkled in for good measure.

Obviously you're limited to traditional shotgun only because there are no designed QB runs in any other type of formations (the 3 QB Wrap plays in Split Big, Offset and Trio 4WR excluded) but if you're really dedicated to running your QB as the core of your offense traditional shotgun is all you need.

Honestly, if I had a running QB, it is all I'd do. I'd put a 6th OL on the field, put a FB/TE in the backfield to lead block and run Power and Wrap. If I happened to have a speedy HB/WR I'd put him in the slot to run Jet Sweep with the FB/TE lead blocking. Throw enough perimeter screens and PA passes off of Read and Jet to keep a defense honest. Think of it like any power run offense, Stanford for example, but your QB replaces the HB and you just put your FB-type next to him to lead block. I'd also run a ton of Wildcat. Remember, if you play your QB at QB in Wildcat, you can hot route on PA Jet and create some really nasty pass patterns off of that Jet action. Most users see Wildcat and manually rush the LOS like a kamikaze, a legit PA pass off of it would stop that in a hurry. You'd have to be a little sneaky about it because of the animation and sound that accompanies hot routes (users will know you can't audible to a run in Wildcat) but it would work great.

If we keep going in Powerhouse, I have a 93 SPD ATH QB/WR/DB coming in this next season that I might dedicate to being a change of pace QB. My pocket passer still has two seasons left and will probably be maxed out ratings but I badly want some athleticism at QB to run some of my QB run stuff.

 

[bluejay13]

I mean if you have the quarterback to design a legit QB run game around, there is no more deadly offense in the game. Early on in NCAA 14, I think the first year it came out, and I we had that lower level OD where I was New Mexico. I ran a QB centric offense for four straight seasons where I must have run my QB 25-30 times a game. If you look at what @bluejay13 is doing in Powerhouse it isn't that different. It is Q Power, some Q Wrap, a little option sprinkled in for good measure.

Obviously you're limited to traditional shotgun only because there are no designed QB runs in any other type of formations (the 3 QB Wrap plays in Split Big, Offset and Trio 4WR excluded) but if you're really dedicated to running your QB as the core of your offense traditional shotgun is all you need.

Honestly, if I had a running QB, it is all I'd do. I'd put a 6th OL on the field, put a FB/TE in the backfield to lead block and run Power and Wrap. If I happened to have a speedy HB/WR I'd put him in the slot to run Jet Sweep with the FB/TE lead blocking. Throw enough perimeter screens and PA passes off of Read and Jet to keep a defense honest. Think of it like any power run offense, Stanford for example, but your QB replaces the HB and you just put your FB-type next to him to lead block. I'd also run a ton of Wildcat. Remember, if you play your QB at QB in Wildcat, you can hot route on PA Jet and create some really nasty pass patterns off of that Jet action. Most users see Wildcat and manually rush the LOS like a kamikaze, a legit PA pass off of it would stop that in a hurry. You'd have to be a little sneaky about it because of the animation and sound that accompanies hot routes (users will know you can't audible to a run in Wildcat) but it would work great.

If we keep going in Powerhouse, I have a 93 SPD ATH QB/WR/DB coming in this next season that I might dedicate to being a change of pace QB. My pocket passer still has two seasons left and will probably be maxed out ratings but I badly want some athleticism at QB to run some of my QB run stuff.

The key is having all the lineman especially the guards to have 90+ acceleration so they can properly pull block. In my first three seasons one of my guards wasn't quick enough to get to the point of attack so I always ran power to the left. Mix in base, QB blast, counter, inside zone, jet, and a triple option with my WR3(my slot guy). With all the 4-2-5 and 3-3-5 I can live with a center with 80 acceleration but he must have 90+ strength to hold off so the guards don't get blown up in the backfield.


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[TXHusker05]

The key is having all the lineman especially the guards to have 90+ acceleration so they can properly pull block. In my first three seasons one of my guards wasn't quick enough to get to the point of attack so I always ran power to the left. Mix in base, QB blast, counter, inside zone, jet, and a triple option with my WR3(my slot guy). With all the 4-2-5 and 3-3-5 I can live with a center with 80 acceleration but he must have 90+ strength to hold off so the guards don't get blown up in the backfield.


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Yep, awareness is also important for guards. I've had to move centers to at least one guard position the last two seasons in Powerhouse and the awareness hit just leaves them wandering around aimlessly on power and counter. I only run Power/Counter one direction there as well, so that the puller is the guy with the awareness. I still run Strong Power with both guards pulling, but I tend to run it so the lead puller is the better guy and then I just hope the backside puller with low awareness runs into someone or at the very least stays out of my way.

Were I building a QB based run attack from the ground up I'd be ~15 formations, all traditional gun plus wildcat.

12 Personnel

Ace
Ace Twins
Twin TE Slot
Twin TE Slot Wk
Wildcat Wing

11 Personnel

Normal
Normal Wk
Y Trips
Y Trips Wk

20 Personnel

F Twins Over
Split Slot (I may consider Split Y Flex here, which is 21, because it has Wrap)

10 Personnel

Spread

Maybe add a few Empty formations as well. Empty Wing Trio and Empty Trey/TE with that sweet QB Zone play. As much Wildcat as I felt like I could run. Keep it simple, not a ton of extravagant option concepts. Just the basics.

 

[LEGEND]

I have to look at the Wildcat formations. Which do you suggest? Never really ran any of them at all!

I'm enjoying the QB run offense! I never committed to it before because my starter would always get injured. My back up was usually a Peyton Manning type or as slow with no accuracy.

I'm almost three deep with athletic QB's in all my OD's right now... So I can go for it!

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[TXHusker05]

I have to look at the Wildcat formations. Which do you suggest? Never really ran any of them at all!

I'm enjoying the QB run offense! I never committed to it before because my starter would always get injured. My back up was usually a Peyton Manning type or as slow with no accuracy.

I'm almost three deep with athletic QB's in all my OD's right now... So I can go for it!

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Well I would definitely recommend Wildcat Wing. Especially if you use any sort of 12 personnel stuff. In that OD with New Mexico that I was talking about, I had an up-tempo series going between Twin TE Slot, Twin TE Slot Wk and Wildcat Wing. Wildcat Wing is 12 personnel and the transition is flawless.

What I would typically do is start that series by running Buck Sweep or Counter from Twin TE Slot Wk. In your case you could run Wrap really easily. Then go up-tempo to Wildcat Wing. If I was on the left hash, I'd just run Jet to the right so the handoff animation didn't get jacked up. If I was on the right hash, I would flip the Wildcat Wing but run like Jet Counter with the QB. Then I could go up-tempo again and go to Twin TE Slot to run Q Power or Speed Option.

I didn't use it, but Gun Ace and Gun Ace Twins could easily be a big part of that as well. Both formations have a QB Power, I think Ace also has Blast. Ace Twins has Jet, Motion Triple and a great pass off of Motion Triple. If I had the personnel to do it, I could stay in those 5 formations plus Wildcat Wing for the majority of a game.

 

[TXHusker05]

Since Powerhouse is on its last legs I decided to go full YOLO and just start launching the ball all over the field. I went back to my HUNH Spread-I which is just a really basic 10/11 personnel, all offset gun offense. Fairly similar to Baylor, a lot of screens and quick game and then took shots down the field off of PA Read, creating various concepts with hot routes. I like going with all go or all stop depending on if it is press or off coverage. I also started going 3x1 4WR Trio and created what amounted to mesh, drive and FL dig all in the same play. Solo WR and middle slot WR run shallows to create mesh, outside WR runs a 10 yard dig, inside slot WR runs a clear out seam.

I actually really enjoyed being more air it out. I ran 74 plays for 518 yards. 36 of 46 passing for 428 yards and 4 TD and ran 28 times for 90 yards, although I took a ton of sacks because of how bad the pass pro sliders are. Assuming we restart, I'd probably look to be a more pass oriented team. I'm starting to get bored running the ball, but maybe that is just because of how jacked up the current run sliders have been.

 

[JSU Zack]

Went in and made an offset gun option book tonight similar (but not really) to GSU. Man, offset gun got completely nerfed in this game. IZ slice is OP, but the rest of the plays in every formation is unbearable. Y lead across the formation whiffs OLBs, timing is off on regular runs, and PA is really bad.

 

[TXHusker05]

Went in and made an offset gun option book tonight similar (but not really) to GSU. Man, offset gun got completely nerfed in this game. IZ slice is OP, but the rest of the plays in every formation is unbearable. Y lead across the formation whiffs OLBs, timing is off on regular runs, and PA is really bad.

I love Offset, but obviously you have to know the strengths and weaknesses. Inside zone and zone slice are obviously great. Y Lead is actually useful... if there is no overhang player. Obviously blocking an overhang player is the whole point to run Y Lead Read, but as you've noticed he won't get picked up. What's best is running it as a pseudo-wrap play, if you get a keep read, pull and follow that arc block and he'll pick up the safety to that side. In the game I'm playing vs Wpotty right now I had a great Y Lead Read where the arc block picked up the safety and dropped him.

My biggest issue is two back Counter in Offset, which went from being one of the best plays in the game to simply not working at all. The timing is awful and you end up running up the ass of a puller. Offset Power is nice but you have to treat it almost like trap. Speaking of Trap, 01 Trap is money. All the options are good too.

PA Read is dicey. You have to cancel the animation immediate after the mesh AND you have to step back away from the animation or you may get knocked down by the HB. That's easier said than done, but I've been doing it for a long time so it's muscle memory by now.

It is really about what you're looking to do. If you want to be option based, you really can't do better than offset gun. If you want to be power run based, you're better off in traditional gun, pistol or under center.

 

[bruin228]

I've found that if you motion the wing to the back's side out of those Normal Wing Wk Offset and Wings Trips Wk Offset formations, it can be killer. The OL's blocking doesn't get in the way and the TE now blocks like he does in those Y Lead plays and will go blow up the safety.

 

[TXHusker05]

I've found that if you motion the wing to the back's side out of those Normal Wing Wk Offset and Wings Trips Wk Offset formations, it can be killer. The OL's blocking doesn't get in the way and the TE now blocks like he does in those Y Lead plays and will go blow up the safety.

Yep, it helps a lot. I motion the wing towards the back alignment often, for both lead and non-lead plays. It is a trick I picked up in like NCAA 12 or 13, before there were zone slice/lead/arc plays in the game. I wanted to have that action in my offense and I found that you could motion the H-Back toward (or away) from the back's alignment, depending on who you wanted him to lead block for (QB or HB) and the block set-up perfectly.

In a slant backfield formation like Wing Offset Wk or Normal Offset Wk where there is a "normal" (non-lead) Read play, I'll actually motion the wing player towards the back alignment and have him lead block for the HB. It basically creates an Iso Read. Then you have two counters off of that same motion, lead read where you get a nice arc block out and the wing picks up a safety and counter, which has the exact same block (arc to the safety). It actually fixes the otherwise broken two back counter play in offset by getting the wing player the hell out of the way.

If you want to create a slice zone read where the wing is leading for the QB instead of the HB, find any "normal" read play in the stack backfield formations. Normal Flex Wing and Wing Offset being the two main examples. You'll get way better slice action than you do on the designed lead read play. I also love Slot F Wing for that. Motion the wing across and his motion actually takes him to the tackle and he'll read the play just like you are. If it is a give read, he'll cut up and lead block for the HB. If it is a keep read, he'll bypass the read and pick up a LB or overhang player. I have a good PA off of that as well using the PA Cross Up play in Slot F Wing. Cancel the wing auto-motion and have him either stay in and block or run a seam pattern, motion him like you did before and then run PA Read like I explained above. You basically get shallow cross with a slot corner/smash route and a FB seam/pop pass.

In my game tonight vs wpotty one of my (few) big plays running the Spread-I Triple was a lead read play where he actually dropped the overhang player tight enough to where he became the read, got a keep, the arc block took me straight to the safety and lit him. Would have been 6 had I not been tripped up from behind.

My transition from being inside zone/option based to being power based caused me to leave offset gun for a while and roll with pistol, but now that I'm back in offset gun all the tricks I picked up researching my original Spread-I offense are coming back to me. And amazingly they still work. Not sure what that says about EA. I don't know if I'd go back to being offset gun full time outside of a full on triple option offense like I'm running in BSCFL, but I'm enjoying it a lot. I don't think I could pull off trying to be Malzahn/Morris from offset gun any more, for that I need to be more Pistol based with offset as a small aspect of the overall offense.

 

[TXHusker05]

I also think if you're going to run an offense like @bruin228 which is essentially a one back air raid, there is nothing better than offset gun. Offset has all the core air raid concepts in almost every single formation. Mesh, Shallow, Drive, Smash, Verts are in every one back offset formation, with or without a TE. Most of those are in the two back wing formations as well and those that aren't can easily be created via hot route. There are some good scat/spot concepts mixed in those formations and the two back split/slot offset formation has that great orbit auto-motion series where you have a belly play, stick, spot or a swing screen.

Since I'm so run heavy in BSCFL and I have no interest in dealing with the bullshit going on in Powerhouse, I'm hoping to do another OD where I'm actually throwing more. Either a more pro-passing style offense or something similar to what Arizona State or UCLA does. Not full raid, but those same raid concepts paired with a fairly generic inside zone run game.

I had been toying with a pro offense using Stanford offline because of all those TEs. A lot of two TE Pistol, one back offense plus some offset wing (including Slot F Wing) to run split zone and then a bunch of smaller 4-5 play packages under center. Like have one Strong formation where it is just Power, PA Power, Counter and a screen or quick pass. Another that is Toss, FB Dive, PA FB, Screen. Ace Slot Flex where I have that PA TE Screen and HB Trap plus a drop back. I think it'd be fun to go with a more heavy pro flavor. Since I'm running the ball on like 95% of my plays in BSCFL, having another OD where I'm throwing 30-40 times would be fun.

 

[PaHsFootballRules]

@TXHusker05

Power? I thought you gave up on power?

 

[TXHusker05]

@TXHusker05

Power? I thought you gave up on power?

I run it as a short yardage/goal line series in Strong I Twins Over. Since that moves the tackle over to the play side and formation sub my TE into the FB position to lead block, it is a nice little series to go to. I really like the PA Power O with a hot route pop pass to the TE lined up at tackle back side. Most users over-shift their D and I can throw a quick pop pass up the seam to the TE (who is actually a pass catching OL for me). Most of my Strong I formations are just HB Toss, FB Dive, PA FB and a screen but I wanted one where I just had a straight run.

I do run one back power out of Pistol quite a bit, out of Wing Over especially but I avoid two back power except for that one short yardage series. I would like to run it more, but two back power blows. If I were to go to something a little more pro-style, I might put some Ace stuff in to run one back power.

The only other Power play I run is in Normal Flex Wing Wk in my Spread-I Triple offense. I put my FB at HB and treat it like two back trap though because you can never get the angle right to get around the edge, I usually just cut back behind the pulling BSG. Depending on what you do with that H-Back, you can either get a nice cutback lane or you can motion him across and get a lead block like iso (similar to what I described above).

In my original offense, I ran offset gun Counter as Power since it was actually blocked as power and it was the most effective "power" play in the game. But they more of less ruined offset gun counter outside of one or two formations for 14, which ironically coincided with my original all-offset Spread-I offense going to shit lol. You can only run inside zone so many times before people say screw this and go bear front and bum rush with a safety.

 

[Haze88]

I run it as a short yardage/goal line series in Strong I Twins Over. Since that moves the tackle over to the play side and formation sub my TE into the FB position to lead block, it is a nice little series to go to. I really like the PA Power O with a hot route pop pass to the TE lined up at tackle back side. Most users over-shift their D and I can throw a quick pop pass up the seam to the TE (who is actually a pass catching OL for me). Most of my Strong I formations are just HB Toss, FB Dive, PA FB and a screen but I wanted one where I just had a straight run.

I do run one back power out of Pistol quite a bit, out of Wing Over especially but I avoid two back power except for that one short yardage series. I would like to run it more, but two back power blows. If I were to go to something a little more pro-style, I might put some Ace stuff in to run one back power.

The only other Power play I run is in Normal Flex Wing Wk in my Spread-I Triple offense. I put my FB at HB and treat it like two back trap though because you can never get the angle right to get around the edge, I usually just cut back behind the pulling BSG. Depending on what you do with that H-Back, you can either get a nice cutback lane or you can motion him across and get a lead block like iso (similar to what I described above).

In my original offense, I ran offset gun Counter as Power since it was actually blocked as power and it was the most effective "power" play in the game. But they more of less ruined offset gun counter outside of one or two formations for 14, which ironically coincided with my original all-offset Spread-I offense going to shit lol. You can only run inside zone so many times before people say screw this and go bear front and bum rush with a safety.

How much do you mix Traditional, Offset, and Pistol in your various offenses? I love concepts from all three but I often get what seems like a bunch of plays rather than a coherent offense

 

[TXHusker05]

How much do you mix Traditional, Offset, and Pistol in your various offenses? I love concepts from all three but I often get what seems like a bunch of plays rather than a coherent offense

That has always been my problem when mixing them, I lean on one or the other and completely forget about the rest and it ends up just being me calling plays with no rhyme or reason. What I've tried to do is separate them completely. The triple option version of my Spread-I I'm running in BSCFL is entirely offset gun. Offset is best for downhill hard hitting option game.

My more traditional pro-style offense is mostly Pistol. I still have to go offset gun for a few things, mainly my screen game, but I spend most of the game in Pistol.

I think there are ways to seamlessly blend all 3, but I am not really sure what those ways are. I used to mix all three, Pistol, Offset and traditional Gun, but that was a disaster. It bloats the playbook and you get in bad formation tendencies where you're only running one thing out of one type of formation and good users are going to be all over that. Now I really have 4 different playbooks, two that are entirely offset gun (one option, one pass heavy), one that is a pistol power offense and one that is entirely traditional gun (plus wildcat) which is a QB Run offense (Blast, Power, etc).

The hardest thing for me is finding one specific philosophy and designing everything around that. I always try to do too much and it ends up being a bloated playbook where I'm just calling random plays with no real rhyme or reason. If you find your specific identity and have the discipline to hold yourself to it, the rest becomes easy. If you want to be QB Run, get in traditional gun and run power, wrap blast. If you want to be a gun triple option team (Navy/Army/GT but from Gun), get in offset gun. If you want a more power/counter gap scheme run game with PA, get in the Pistol. You can mix in a few things within each of those offenses for special situations (I have special short yardage/goal line stuff for each), but as long as the core is focused, you should be good to go.

What I do year to year and dynasty to dynasty is based entirely on the personnel I have. My various versions of my offense have enough similarities with formations and concepts that there is familiarity week to week and I'm not searching for formations and plays having no idea where to find things and how to run them.

 

[Haze88]

That has always been my problem when mixing them, I lean on one or the other and completely forget about the rest and it ends up just being me calling plays with no rhyme or reason. What I've tried to do is separate them completely. The triple option version of my Spread-I I'm running in BSCFL is entirely offset gun. Offset is best for downhill hard hitting option game.

My more traditional pro-style offense is mostly Pistol. I still have to go offset gun for a few things, mainly my screen game, but I spend most of the game in Pistol.

I think there are ways to seamlessly blend all 3, but I am not really sure what those ways are. I used to mix all three, Pistol, Offset and traditional Gun, but that was a disaster. It bloats the playbook and you get in bad formation tendencies where you're only running one thing out of one type of formation and good users are going to be all over that. Now I really have 4 different playbooks, two that are entirely offset gun (one option, one pass heavy), one that is a pistol power offense and one that is entirely traditional gun (plus wildcat) which is a QB Run offense (Blast, Power, etc).

The hardest thing for me is finding one specific philosophy and designing everything around that. I always try to do too much and it ends up being a bloated playbook where I'm just calling random plays with no real rhyme or reason. If you find your specific identity and have the discipline to hold yourself to it, the rest becomes easy. If you want to be QB Run, get in traditional gun and run power, wrap blast. If you want to be a gun triple option team (Navy/Army/GT but from Gun), get in offset gun. If you want a more power/counter gap scheme run game with PA, get in the Pistol. You can mix in a few things within each of those offenses for special situations (I have special short yardage/goal line stuff for each), but as long as the core is focused, you should be good to go.

What I do year to year and dynasty to dynasty is based entirely on the personnel I have. My various versions of my offense have enough similarities with formations and concepts that there is familiarity week to week and I'm not searching for formations and plays having no idea where to find things and how to run them.

I love the concept of a gun triple option, but hate the lack of pass concepts in the offset/wing formations. Add in the formation restrictions and the ass-backwards ways that formations tend to shift into each other I can never form an offense exactly as I envision it

 

[nofx94]

I feel like I've got my gun triple option perfect. I have Pistol in there as underutilized changeup, but in not getting rid of it.

In my UGA dynasty we just beat 3-0 Ole Miss 63-10. Ran tempo the first three quarters and clock for the last. My QB was 11/14 for 311 and 3 TDs and carried 20 times for 132 and 3. The only problem is my #1 RB (99 ovr) only had three carries for 42 while my #2 (91 ovr) had 16 for 96 and 2 TDs. Casualty of the system. I can force the ball to my #1 guy more as opposed to shuffling him into the slot via packages, I guess. Don't want a Zeke situation. (;-))

My formations:
Normal offset, split, split slot, split off, split twins, split y off, spread flex, spread off, trio 4, trio 4str, trio off, twin TE slot, twin TE slot wk, wing trips

Pistol full house, slot, strong, train, wing trips, and then wing over I think

Just executing my philosophy. Run until the box is loaded and then over the top.

Despite the limitations in offset, the utilization of the fake screen plays is really important. That's the only reason I was heaving bombs all game. Sucked in the defense and then my guys were just beating people down field.

Plus I'm not a great passer so giving me too many passing options can be really trying in and of itself.

 

[Haze88]

I feel like I've got my gun triple option perfect. I have Pistol in there as underutilized changeup, but in not getting rid of it.

In my UGA dynasty we just beat 3-0 Ole Miss 63-10. Ran tempo the first three quarters and clock for the last. My QB was 11/14 for 311 and 3 TDs and carried 20 times for 132 and 3. The only problem is my #1 RB (99 ovr) only had three carries for 42 while my #2 (91 ovr) had 16 for 96 and 2 TDs. Casualty of the system. I can force the ball to my #1 guy more as opposed to shuffling him into the slot via packages, I guess. Don't want a Zeke situation. (;-))

My formations:
Normal offset, split, split slot, split off, split twins, split y off, spread flex, spread off, trio 4, trio 4str, trio off, twin TE slot, twin TE slot wk, wing trips

Pistol full house, slot, strong, train, wing trips, and then wing over I think

Just executing my philosophy. Run until the box is loaded and then over the top.

Despite the limitations in offset, the utilization of the fake screen plays is really important. That's the only reason I was heaving bombs all game. Sucked in the defense and then my guys were just beating people down field.

Plus I'm not a great passer so giving me too many passing options can be really trying in and of itself.

Id say more than anything not having an adequate depth chart makes me upset. I'd love if I could have package adjustments during the no huddle so I could move my Slot reciever in SG Normal to the outside on Normal Flex so he still gets the jet sweep handoff without having to huddle and realign. nothing like having a drive come to a screeching halt as I accidently run Jet to my 85/85 possession receiver when shifting to flex and having my 5'9 slotback attempting to block

 

[TXHusker05]

I love the concept of a gun triple option, but hate the lack of pass concepts in the offset/wing formations. Add in the formation restrictions and the ass-backwards ways that formations tend to shift into each other I can never form an offense exactly as I envision it

I get around the lack of pass concepts by... not passing. I haven't checked the numbers recently but through 11 games I bet I've thrown 60 passes all season to what must be at least 600 rush attempts. I have always made due with the pass concepts in offset and wing formations.

My playbook is at the bottom of Page 4 of my Spread-I 2.0 thread, I just don't have pass plays in the playbook. I have screens for quick audibles and the occasional drop back or sprintout, that's it. I thought I would struggle but it has actually been great and I haven't missed the stuff I've ripped out and once this season is over I'm going to rip a bunch more out that I didn't use much this season.

I feel like I've got my gun triple option perfect. I have Pistol in there as underutilized changeup, but in not getting rid of it.

In my UGA dynasty we just beat 3-0 Ole Miss 63-10. Ran tempo the first three quarters and clock for the last. My QB was 11/14 for 311 and 3 TDs and carried 20 times for 132 and 3. The only problem is my #1 RB (99 ovr) only had three carries for 42 while my #2 (91 ovr) had 16 for 96 and 2 TDs. Casualty of the system. I can force the ball to my #1 guy more as opposed to shuffling him into the slot via packages, I guess. Don't want a Zeke situation. (;-))

My formations:
Normal offset, split, split slot, split off, split twins, split y off, spread flex, spread off, trio 4, trio 4str, trio off, twin TE slot, twin TE slot wk, wing trips

Pistol full house, slot, strong, train, wing trips, and then wing over I think

Just executing my philosophy. Run until the box is loaded and then over the top.

Despite the limitations in offset, the utilization of the fake screen plays is really important. That's the only reason I was heaving bombs all game. Sucked in the defense and then my guys were just beating people down field.

Plus I'm not a great passer so giving me too many passing options can be really trying in and of itself.

That's pretty much my philosophy, cobble together a handful of passes of screens and hot routes off of fake screens and/or PA Read type of plays. That's the core of what I do. I haven't found much need for Pistol in my Spread-I Triple. I use Full House once or twice a game, and I use Train once or twice a game specifically for the Speed Option play (flipped to the twin TE side, with the FB motioned opposite).

I really don't need the others because they don't add anything I don't already have. The one thing I wouldn't mind having is Twin TE Slot in Pistol with the 2 motion option plays plus Lead Option. I may put that in the offense in place a few other things I'll pull out.

Id say more than anything not having an adequate depth chart makes me upset. I'd love if I could have package adjustments during the no huddle so I could move my Slot reciever in SG Normal to the outside on Normal Flex so he still gets the jet sweep handoff without having to huddle and realign. nothing like having a drive come to a screeching halt as I accidently run Jet to my 85/85 possession receiver when shifting to flex and having my 5'9 slotback attempting to block

Yeah I hate that, I've made it work with my triple option offense because I actually have tight ends at all my receiver spots and then formation sub my slotback HB wherever I need him. I don't run tempo there so I can huddle up and do whatever.

 

[Haze88]

I get around the lack of pass concepts by... not passing. I haven't checked the numbers recently but through 11 games I bet I've thrown 60 passes all season to what must be at least 600 rush attempts. I have always made due with the pass concepts in offset and wing formations.

My playbook is at the bottom of Page 4 of my Spread-I 2.0 thread, I just don't have pass plays in the playbook. I have screens for quick audibles and the occasional drop back or sprintout, that's it. I thought I would struggle but it has actually been great and I haven't missed the stuff I've ripped out and once this season is over I'm going to rip a bunch more out that I didn't use much this season.



That's pretty much my philosophy, cobble together a handful of passes of screens and hot routes off of fake screens and/or PA Read type of plays. That's the core of what I do. I haven't found much need for Pistol in my Spread-I Triple. I use Full House once or twice a game, and I use Train once or twice a game specifically for the Speed Option play (flipped to the twin TE side, with the FB motioned opposite).

I really don't need the others because they don't add anything I don't already have. The one thing I wouldn't mind having is Twin TE Slot in Pistol with the 2 motion option plays plus Lead Option. I may put that in the offense in place a few other things I'll pull out.



Yeah I hate that, I've made it work with my triple option offense because I actually have tight ends at all my receiver spots and then formation sub my slotback HB wherever I need him. I don't run tempo there so I can huddle up and do whatever.

I love being able to air it out in a pinch, watching Brady play for 14 years and being a former HS WR will do that to you. Ideally if I could transfer the same routes across WR alignments the way real teams do I'd be content. How do you run a spread with no element of no-huddle/tempo? Seems odd to me

 

[TXHusker05]

I love being able to air it out in a pinch, watching Brady play for 14 years and being a former HS WR will do that to you. Ideally if I could transfer the same routes across WR alignments the way real teams do I'd be content. How do you run a spread with no element of no-huddle/tempo? Seems odd to me

I might go up-tempo for a series or two here and there, especially if I catch someone in a bad option defense setting for the personnel I have out there, but I prefer just going slow and controlling the clock. I just treat it like a normal under center flexbone triple option team, slow and steady.

I make the majority of my calls at the line of scrimmage using in-formation quick audibles and my preset audibles. I can react to any look I get at the line of scrimmage with some combination of those audibles. I can get to so much of my offense at the line that I think tempo would be counter productive. I think you also mentioned how some personnel/formations not syncing up well with each other, that's another reason I try to avoid tempo. I don't want to end up with guys all over the place and unable to go to a certain set of audibles.

The only times I go tempo are when I catch someone in a really bad defense, either in the wrong personnel or in a wrong alignment or a wrong coach setting. If I catch someone in conservative option defense to open the game, I will go the fastest HUNH tempo I have and run as much option as possible to take advantage. A lot of people don't change their option settings right away, so I try to exploit that early. If someone mixes up their option defense setting and I happen to catch them on a conservative, I'll attack it with tempo as well. Occasionally if I see someone in a 425/335, I'll go up-tempo for 2-3 plays between Trio Offset and Trio Unbalanced to take advantage of formation quirks.

In my non-option offenses, I'll go up-tempo more because I need that element of attacking someone before they are set and can react.

 

[Haze88]

I might go up-tempo for a series or two here and there, especially if I catch someone in a bad option defense setting for the personnel I have out there, but I prefer just going slow and controlling the clock. I just treat it like a normal under center flexbone triple option team, slow and steady.

I make the majority of my calls at the line of scrimmage using in-formation quick audibles and my preset audibles. I can react to any look I get at the line of scrimmage with some combination of those audibles. I can get to so much of my offense at the line that I think tempo would be counter productive. I think you also mentioned how some personnel/formations not syncing up well with each other, that's another reason I try to avoid tempo. I don't want to end up with guys all over the place and unable to go to a certain set of audibles.

The only times I go tempo are when I catch someone in a really bad defense, either in the wrong personnel or in a wrong alignment or a wrong coach setting. If I catch someone in conservative option defense to open the game, I will go the fastest HUNH tempo I have and run as much option as possible to take advantage. A lot of people don't change their option settings right away, so I try to exploit that early. If someone mixes up their option defense setting and I happen to catch them on a conservative, I'll attack it with tempo as well. Occasionally if I see someone in a 425/335, I'll go up-tempo for 2-3 plays between Trio Offset and Trio Unbalanced to take advantage of formation quirks.

In my non-option offenses, I'll go up-tempo more because I need that element of attacking someone before they are set and can react.

I'll definitely give it a whirl. Something about being a spread huddle team just seems odd, but considering what I want to do and the game's limitations, it may be necessary. I've never gotten why FB/TE is used for recruiting, but not for no-huddle