PSUEagle
Well-Known Member
3 Tech: allows you to get a double play side and it's easier for the center to seal the backside A Gap if he's dealing with a 1 Tech as opposed to a 3 Tech.
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Spread Offense
- Thread starter JSU Zack
- Start date
3 Tech: allows you to get a double play side and it's easier for the center to seal the backside A Gap if he's dealing with a 1 Tech as opposed to a 3 Tech.
bluejay13
Well-Known Member
Bruin I think what your issue is with QB power and Base even is that your offensive guards are usually recruited to pass block first so they lack acceleration. They don't pull block nearly as quickly as you would like so it makes it difficult to execute. I always go for lineman that at least have 88+ acceleration. Hope this helps
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PSUEagle
Well-Known Member
I think zone schemes are more open to interpretation than gap schemes in terms of where to run the ball. In a hypothetical world where the front's balanced with the only difference being the two DT's, I'd run Stretch to a 1 Tech myself as well.
When it comes to Inside Zone for me it actually depends on how they're playing the DT opposite the 3 Tech: is he more of a shade over the nose or is he shaded/head up on the guard? If it's the former I like to run towards the 3 Tech: a natural cutback lane should appear behind the shade backside. If it's the latter, I would go away from the 3 Tech and get multiple double teams and look for the ball to go between the A gaps.
Note that in all of these I'm assuming there's at least one TE along the front. Trying to run from a pure 10 personnel type set is extremely hard: it's difficult to run OZ since there's no chance to help the OT with a double, while IZ is difficult if the defense either keeps an extra man in the box or plays games with their front and have them pinch (and make the walked out OLB responsible for C gap).
Exactly as @JSU Zack described, just be patient. If you mash the sprint button you're going to run right up the BSG's ass and it'll go nowhere. Just go slow and see how the blocking develops. Power is a really iffy proposition in NCAA, in part because the blocking is wrong. You get a lot of traffic to contend with because the BSG is just pulling, he doesn't really have an assignment. In the case of QB Power, I find myself bouncing it (ala zone stretch) more often than not. Could be coincidence but it just seems to work out that way.
I find that plays with single pullers (Power, Gun Counter) I end up bouncing outside. Plays with two pullers (Undercenter/Pistol Counter and Strong Power), I end up cutting upfield. I treat Pistol Counter (GT) just like Osborne era Nebraska's Counter Trap (see below). Tailback aim point is inside the guard's kick out block. I treat Strong Power as a Pin & Pull variation of zone stretch, just bouncing until a cutback lane presents itself.
Seems like a lot of college teams have taken to a Bear front vs Power O heavy teams these days since it all but eliminates your G-pull stuff. That isn't a complete disaster for an offense, you can just run your perimeter run game or use tackle trap/H pull type stuff but it gets you out of your comfort zone.
Unfortunately for me, there aren't tackle trap/H pull type of plays in the game so I have no way to counter the constant pinched/bear fronts I encounter. Part of the reason I went from Offset Gun to Pistol was to get access to HB Stretch but even that gets tough when everyone and their mother puts 11 guys inside of 10 yards.
LEGEND
Well-Known Member
I've come to realize I'm the Ryan Tannehill of this game. I can't make the touch throws and my deep ball sucks! 
I can get the matchups and looks I want... But getting the ball there is a different issue. I don't know what the problem is... So I don't have a clue how to correct it! I've been focusing on making sure my feet are set... So where do I go from there?
I have a QB with 98 Thp and 95 Acc and I struggle completing passes over 20 yds with him. All his/my deep throws seem to hang up in the air... Or are under thrown. I can have a guy 10-15 yds behind the defense and he will have to wait or comeback for the ball. I can't figure it out.. Smh!
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I can get the matchups and looks I want... But getting the ball there is a different issue. I don't know what the problem is... So I don't have a clue how to correct it! I've been focusing on making sure my feet are set... So where do I go from there?
I have a QB with 98 Thp and 95 Acc and I struggle completing passes over 20 yds with him. All his/my deep throws seem to hang up in the air... Or are under thrown. I can have a guy 10-15 yds behind the defense and he will have to wait or comeback for the ball. I can't figure it out.. Smh!
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JSU Zack
How do I IT?
I've come to realize I'm the Ryan Tannehill of this game. I can't make the touch throws and my deep ball sucks!
I can get the matchups and looks I want... But getting the ball there is a different issue. I don't know what the problem is... So I don't have a clue how to correct it! I've been focusing on making sure my feet are set... So where do I go from there?
I have a QB with 98 Thp and 95 Acc and I struggle completing passes over 20 yds with him. All his/my deep throws seem to hang up in the air... Or are under thrown. I can have a guy 10-15 yds behind the defense and he will have to wait or comeback for the ball. I can't figure it out.. Smh!
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What passing concepts?
LEGEND
Well-Known Member
Basically the Erickson stuff from his Miami days.... I have PDF's of his play books. The game is skewed in the field dimensions. It's too hard to make throws sometimes because of that.
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JSU Zack
How do I IT?
Link?
LEGEND
Well-Known Member
I couldn't figure out how to post it in this thread... So I started a new thread with the link. At the bottom it has the PDF files of his offenses at every school with the year.
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I don't even bother with comeback routes anymore. The routes are so jerky and weird and even if it is open the likelihood that the throw ends up a mile wide is high. More often than not, the corner ends up jumping it anyway. I would rather just run a quick curl or something.
fanoftgame
Active Member
JSU Zack
How do I IT?
Read through it, and he makes a lot of sense. The whole purpose of a zone scheme is to not have hard & fast rules like this, but if you want to maximize double teams at the point of attack, this is spot on.
fanoftgame
Active Member
Tbh it changed my whole whole run game with immediate benefits against users in ncaa and madden especially.
What stuck to me the most was "The best cut (back) is no cut". I live by that now. I always listened to alex gibbs stuff thinking a cut back is wut you want but really its not. You want your rb going downhill as soon as possible as fast as possible. The cutback should the backup plan.
It goes for all running two. Earlier someone was asking about power. To me its primarily a c gap run(it can hit other places tho). So ideally you want to run it at a 3 tech (like psu said) who is a b gap defender. This usually means the c gap is open and there is a good chance where you will get a good down hill rush with minimal cuts by your rb.
If you play madden on ps4 this is very important because, in that game you arent cutting the play back whether its there or not
. Players have so much weight and momentum cuts will get you stuffed in a hurry in that game. However by focusing on attacking open gaps(bubbles) you get doubles p.o.a and you get straight line running.Great thing about football is that once you learn something on one side you can use it to your advantage on the other.
Now on defense I like playing around with my fronts to put defenders in the immediate gaps where my opponent wants to run. Ex he is running iz, so I put my best dt in the b gap of the side he likes to run to. He likes to run power ok I put my de in the c in an under front. He likes to run out side, might spread the line with de playing outside and line backers shifted over.
Add that with keeping a plus 1 advantage in the box now your playing some run d.
JSU Zack
How do I IT?
I took some time to breakdown some of JSU's plays that resulted in big gains this weekend.
The link has an explanation of Counter Trey & the Fade Smash concept.
http://cockynation.com/2015/10/04/film-analysis-jsu-vs-mvsu/
The link has an explanation of Counter Trey & the Fade Smash concept.
http://cockynation.com/2015/10/04/film-analysis-jsu-vs-mvsu/
LEGEND
Well-Known Member
Brought this guy in over the weekend to work with my Qb's.
As it turns out... I've been passing wrong all this time! Instead of flicking the stick on passes... I was leaning on it heavily. This made my passes more line drive than I intended. Now I can understand why my passes were under thrown so often.
Been trying to correct hitch in passing motion since yesterday morning. Was doing well then I started getting cocky and turned into Jay Cutler!
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LEGEND
Well-Known Member
Anyone using any of the pistol trips or 4 wr sets in their spread? I'm running a Dennis Erickson inspired One back offense. I don't really like offset gun... so I'm trying to turn to pistol for down hill running. This way I can hit either side... Normal gun you can't really bounce back side.
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JSU Zack
How do I IT?
Vs. man usually means a pick against bump & run guys.
http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2015/9/4/9241843/bob-stitt-offense-montana
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JSU Zack
How do I IT?
I lol'ed when everyone freaked out about Stitt's offense this year when he beat NDSU. Guy has been going to one back clinics forever, and he's shared the fly sweep with guys for a long time. Stitt basically runs a high school offense of maybe 30 plays and, like they said during the game, two formations: trips & spread.
PaHsFootballRules
Member
I love how his favorite old trick play is Iso!
Even in my Pistol offense I don't use Trips 4WR or Spread. I think the plays in those formations are terrible. I guess if you run something more air raid style they are okay but the rest is not pretty. I prefer Gun for 4WR stuff.
That said, if you're one back pass first and you want a good draw play, Pistol is the way to go. The Draw in Pistol is really, really nice and actually works unlike the Gun Draw plays.
LEGEND
Well-Known Member
I like Pistol trips! 
It gives me a nice down hill running game to either side. Plus it has strong power/bucksweep which can be flipped to either side. As a bonus it has all the screens too!
Found some new twist to my Erickson offense. I took all the other stuff out... It's all 10, 11, and 12 personnel now! I go up tempo with it too! It's really given users some problems. I'm really getting my TE's some great single match up's too! My whole offense is benefiting from it.. My Qb, RB's, TE's, and Wr's are all putting up good numbers. In the past it was either my RB's or my Wr's... Nice to have the whole offense being more involved!
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It gives me a nice down hill running game to either side. Plus it has strong power/bucksweep which can be flipped to either side. As a bonus it has all the screens too!
Found some new twist to my Erickson offense. I took all the other stuff out... It's all 10, 11, and 12 personnel now! I go up tempo with it too! It's really given users some problems. I'm really getting my TE's some great single match up's too! My whole offense is benefiting from it.. My Qb, RB's, TE's, and Wr's are all putting up good numbers. In the past it was either my RB's or my Wr's... Nice to have the whole offense being more involved!
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Last edited:
I like Pistol trips!
It gives me a nice down hill running game to either side. Plus it has strong power/bucksweep which can be flipped to either side. As a bonus it has all the screens too!
Found some new twist to my Erickson offense. I took all the other stuff out... It's all 10, 11, and 12 personnel now! I go up tempo with it too! It's really given users some problems. I'm really getting my TE's some great single match up's too! My whole offense is benefiting from it.. My Qb, RB's, TE's, and Wr's are all putting up good numbers. In the past it was either my RB's or my Wr's... Nice to have the whole offense being more involved!
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Pistol Trips is my go to & Long formation. That Lead Option is deadly, even on 2nd and 3rd & Long because so many people see the trips and overshift their defense to that side and then you have an pulling frontside G and an option play going to the TE side.
Plus like you said, some good screens and I think some really good PA concepts. That PA where you have a comeback, vertical, skinny post/seam to the trips side and a corner route with the TE is nasty. You're all but guaranteed to have an open receiver somewhere. Vs Man, that TE is wide open. Vs Cover 2, that skinny post/seam comes wide open. Vs Cover 3, one of the comeback or vertical routes will come open depending on what that 1/3 safety does.
3x1 formations with a nub TE (Pistol Trips, Pistol Ace Twins, Gun Trips Over, Gun Trips TE/Trio Offset) are nasty vs users because most users these days (me included) run a 425/335 base defense and 425/335 don't adjust well to trips. Typically you end up with a look like this:
--------------------------------------FS-------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------WS------B-------B-----SS--------------
------C-------------------------E---T---T----E-------C----------
------X-------------------------T-G-C-G-T-TE-------------------
----------------Z--------Y----------------------------------------
--------------------------------------Q----------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------T---------------------------
If the user is in man, they have to scramble to get either the backside LB or the FS to run over and cover the slot receiver. If it is zone, you have a numbers advantage to that side. If they check to a Nickel or Dime so they can get a defender over each receiver, you're going to have a wide open TE 9 out of 10 times.
JSU Zack
How do I IT?
I would advise against it unless you want to use the Malzahn formations (Offset Wing) as a changeup to attack scrape exchanges. If you're looking for something Wing T-based but not necessarily Malzahny, I can give you some more details.
JSU Zack
How do I IT?
There isn't much you can do that's series based out of the gun - except the jet series out of a handful of formations. In regards to the buck sweep series, your best bet is to use the following:
Gun Normal HB Wk - Buck Sweep, Outside Zone, Inside Zone, Counter, and Options
Gun Trio HB Wk - Buck Sweep, Outside Zone, Power, Counter, and Options
Gun Y Trips HB Wk - Buck Sweep, Outside Zone, Power, Counter, and Options
Gun Wing Trio Wk - Buck Sweep, Outside Zone, Power, Counter, and Options
Gun Split Slot - Inside Zone, Outside Zone, Power, Counter, and Options
Gun Twins Over - Jet Series Plays, Inverted Veer, and Options
Gun Spread HB Wk - Inside Zone, Outside Zone, Power, Counter, and Options
Gun Spread Offset - Jet Series, Inside Zone, Trap, Counter, and Options
Gun 5 WR Trio - Jet Series
Gun Twin TE Slot - Buck Sweep, Inside Zone, Power, Counter, and Options
Add whatever you want to the passing game. Also take a look at the pistol formations and their "strong power" play. It's in many of the formations and is the same as the buck sweep.
In Malzahn's book, he shows you can run his offense in only three formations (although many of his plays aren't in the game, specifically trap & buck sweep):
Pro (Gun Split)
Spread (Gun Spread)
Trio (Gun 5 WR Trio)
I've tried this, and it's pretty effective if you want something lean.
My offense is based heavily on Malzahn's, but out of Pistol rather than Gun because like @JSU Zack said, you can't get the right plays in Offset Gun and I prefer Pistol to traditional Gun to get the downhill rushing attack. Everything I do is really based on his stuff, although I've started to incorporate a lot more of a typical pro-style component to the offense lately.
If you want to be more Wing T like, what Zack is suggesting is probably the best way to replicate it in game.
If you want to be more Wing T like, what Zack is suggesting is probably the best way to replicate it in game.
My Pistol based offense is:
Pistol
Train
Full House
Weak Slot
H Twins
Ace
Ace Twins
Twin TE
Twin TE Slot
Wing Over
Slot
Y Trips
Trips
Gun
Split Y Offset
Split Offset
Normal Flex Wing & Wk
Normal Offset Wk
Wing Offset & Wk
Wing Trips Wk
Spread Flex
4WR Trio & Str
Empty Wing Trio
I use a little heavier of a "spread" than most, but it is usually 11 or 20 personnel all game.
And how's the blocking when it comes to 3-3 stack and other 3 man fronts for you
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3-3 Stack causes me issues. My go to answer is to get into Pistol and run my Stretch game. That usually takes care of run through and provides a nice cutback lane. I really like unbalanced sets against people running a 335 against me and that's a big reason I started going Pistol, Offset Gun is just limited in the number of unbalanced sets you can run. Other 3 man fronts don't cause me issues, but 335 Stack does, especially with pinched LB.
The two back run game is the core to my offense, either with an H or an extra back. Even in Pistol Twin TE Slot, I play a second HB at the wingback position and motion him into the backfield to run option here and there.
Everything is inside zone based. I'll run some power/counter and stretch but inside zone is the core to everything. In the form of Dive/Zone Read in Offset Gun or Slam in Pistol. I'm trying to utilize more inside zone triple by bringing a pitch or dive back into the backfield from out of the formation. I do it from Pistol some, but would like to get back into some more spread gun sets to do it as well. The two New Mexico offense videos I posted in the option thread are a good example of what I'm trying to accomplish.
The run throughs you get on slam are ridiculous how are you managing with that
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Quick cutbacks and trying to run it towards the 3-tech in a four man front or towards the TE vs a three man front. Double teams typically work better doing it that way. If you're struggling with Slam, try Stretch.
nofx94
Active Member
I'm surprised how complete while at the same time sparse a playbook I was able to make following these guidelines. Right now I have four offensive playbooks. One is more like your thread on the spread-I, though I feel like my version in execution is more like Meyer/Mullen/Herman than Malzahn. More pro/power style than wing t derivative though I do run a lot of option and no huddle. The wing t playbook I made more adheres to the Malzahn style.
LEGEND
Well-Known Member
I gotta figure out how to close games both offensively and defensively! I've lost two games recently where I've had dbl digit leads in the 4th qtr.
I know on both sides of the ball play selection is hurting me. I gotta do better calling plays! On offense I have to figure out a way... To see the field. My biggest issue is... everything tends to blend together. I can't really see my Wr's. I gotta come up with a defensive read system that works for me!
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I know on both sides of the ball play selection is hurting me. I gotta do better calling plays! On offense I have to figure out a way... To see the field. My biggest issue is... everything tends to blend together. I can't really see my Wr's. I gotta come up with a defensive read system that works for me!
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nofx94
Active Member
I would recommend deciding your play call philosophy outside of games. Decide what you want to do philosophically as far as running or passing and combinations therefore, and then do it. Set your formations based on the matchups you want to exploit, set your plays based on what you want to do and how you want to counter defensive responses, and call according to down and distance. Don't be afraid of consistency, but try not to be predictable.
Coordinator cam is the way to go.
LEGEND
Well-Known Member
Craig7835
Well-Known Member
A question about Oklahoma State.I've noticed they were running an Air Raid mixed with the Pro Style for the past couple of years,so has Gundy abandoned the Air Raid & went to the Spread with the Read Option? I've noticed they haven't putting up the yards like they used to
Craig7835
Well-Known Member
This is a big transition from what they were doing at first.Just hope this works in the long run for them,other than that,it's a pretty good offense