Because he only made $15M overall. That's why. $12.8M taking revenue out.
In any business if your expenses are projected for the upcoming year as $20M more than what you made last year, what is going to happen?
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The Accounting Class
- Thread starter Orlando
- Start date
Because he only made $15M overall. That's why. $12.8M taking revenue out.
In any business if your expenses are projected for the upcoming year as $20M more than what you made last year, what is going to happen?
So just so I understand IFA, I can only spend >4 million in one year and if I do that I can't exceed the next year? Anything over $4M pays a tax?
Well he could just drop his scouting/dev budget so it really isn't a big deal.
How do you want it to work then? What do you want? Tell osick how to fix the economic system.
Yankee151
Hot Girl Summer
Osick is running a debt. Whether he made the playoffs or not last year he would be in this situation this year. He could've made $200mm in the playoffs and it wouldn't matter because you can't add money you haven't earned yet into your projected balance. What if his entire team underperforms and he cant make the playoffs? You can't spend $200mm you don't have yet.
Yankee151
Hot Girl Summer
All I'm saying is increasing Cash limits just allows you to run a bigger debt on your reg revenue to expenses margin. Say cash limit was $50mm, I could lose $40mm in one year and I'd STILL have $10mm let over in voodoo cash. Now imagine if I could save my cash right now, I could have $250mm stored to pay off 5 years worth of $50mm losses. That's why there needs to be a cap on cash
I want you to not act condescending, when obviously there is some mystery in this for everyone, lol. I'm just trying to get a firm grip on how this is and you've made several posts about it being "easy to underst" or "just read what I posted" when quite obviously nobody understood how budgets were set until this morning.
Yankee151
Hot Girl Summer
Correct, if he lowers his expenses he won't be running a loss in regular revenue and thus there'd be no problem in needing to rely on money not earned yet.
For IFA, any spending over like 4.4mm (it's 10% or something) is taxed at 100%. So if you sign one guy for $24mm bonus you'd pay $44m in total (20m in taxes)
Osick's situation is probably the worst in the league to try and show how things are broken. He's where he should be given it took him making $21M in the playoffs just to make $15M overall.
He was running a $7M deficit last year, and that has now ballooned to $20M. LAWD, of course he should be strapped, and yes he would have been in trouble had he not made the playoffs, he would have lost $7M in cash to start the year, then if he had revenue sharing that comes out of cash too. Could have started this year with $1M cash and a projected loss of $20M.
Luckily for him given his team, he will probably beat revenue expectations if he plays ticket prices right. But anybody would be strapped in his position
He was running a $7M deficit last year, and that has now ballooned to $20M. LAWD, of course he should be strapped, and yes he would have been in trouble had he not made the playoffs, he would have lost $7M in cash to start the year, then if he had revenue sharing that comes out of cash too. Could have started this year with $1M cash and a projected loss of $20M.
Luckily for him given his team, he will probably beat revenue expectations if he plays ticket prices right. But anybody would be strapped in his position
I agree that there should be a cap on cash, I just didn't understand how the system worked before and now I do. The problem is that due to the talent disparity between the haves/have nots there isn't much the little guys can do with their budget.
My attendance was garbage last year and my budget took a pretty big hit.
Yankee151
Hot Girl Summer
And keep in mind if Osick makes the playoffs again he will be fine, his proj balance is -19m so if he makes that 20m in playoff revenue he will have a balance of $1mm. Granted he'll only have $1mm +/- rev sharing in starting cash the next year (so probably negative), but for this year he can very well still run a profit on the balance sheet. It's the future balances that will come undone if he doesn't trim expenses, not next year's but the year after that.
E.g. in 2048 I had a loss of $-4mm in cash after all was said in done, well last year I made a huge profit (which was subtracted by the cash I owed my owner) and now I'm in good graces again. Had I still run a loss, I think it's very possible my budget doesn't jump $16mm (in fact it probably would've dropped $28mm again). That's where playoff revenue makes a difference. It only matters if you're in that zone where cash doesn't cover a loss.
E.g. in 2048 I had a loss of $-4mm in cash after all was said in done, well last year I made a huge profit (which was subtracted by the cash I owed my owner) and now I'm in good graces again. Had I still run a loss, I think it's very possible my budget doesn't jump $16mm (in fact it probably would've dropped $28mm again). That's where playoff revenue makes a difference. It only matters if you're in that zone where cash doesn't cover a loss.
That was the final piece. Yeah I missed it last year, I really don't care about this enough to dive into unless you bring something up. So once I know what budgets are based on everything else falls into place because the accounting screen is a basic profit loss sheet. You just add and subtract based on revenue expense. I apologize if I was condescending but it is really easy to read. The budgets weren't until you showed me how they worked.
But budgets were the hard part, everything else is easy. It's simple business, you don't record one off revenues as a continual stream of income.
What they could do is program a projection AI saying if you went to the shampship last year, you'll probably make more than you did last year this upcoming year. Based on fan interest and the like.
Lloyd Carr
Well-Known Member
I'm running $0 scouting and $0 development this year. Gave me an additional $11M in budget room. No idea what that will do in the long run as far as prospects/scouting, but oh well.
I'm cumming for all ur free adgents. Might even go to the riggers for some extra $$
I'm cumming for all ur free adgents. Might even go to the riggers for some extra $$
And yes sometimes I forget I can see things you can't. So I know what everyone's numbers are and you can't see them so I come off as an asshole. my bad.
I just see this as an easy enough to read thing now, in the previous versions we had half of this information and we just tripped on our dicks to figure it out. It's just a lot more simple this version, especially the budget part now.
So it all comes together pretty easily which is weird for me. Usually it's a guessing game. It's all about money brought in, and I'm not sure I like it either but at least I know what it is. If we turned owners on we'd just be hoping again.
I just see this as an easy enough to read thing now, in the previous versions we had half of this information and we just tripped on our dicks to figure it out. It's just a lot more simple this version, especially the budget part now.
So it all comes together pretty easily which is weird for me. Usually it's a guessing game. It's all about money brought in, and I'm not sure I like it either but at least I know what it is. If we turned owners on we'd just be hoping again.
DLS and Faz coming off the books should help that starting figure next year no?.
Also all this budgetary information would be nice in the FAQ page. That way it's not just assumed common knowledge.
Yankee151
Hot Girl Summer
The only thing I can say is I made my owner a boatload of money and my budget increased in turn, so that's still an enigma to me. I doubt I'll have trouble once I start competing again. Look at Key West's budgets over the past few years. I mean it sucks we can't spend our profits now, but prices in the league would go up overall if the cash cap was raised so that's no way to do it. IFA, Draft Picks, giving big teams cash is basically the only way for us to spend money. TBH I wouldn't mind if the IFA taxes were lifted so rebuilding teams could get to spend their big profits every year, but that would only benefit me and not guys like Schauwn or Bruin who are running losses so I'm probably biased
Nobody who receives revenue sharing should ever operate at a profit, otherwise your owner just pockets the revenue monies @ZackMills @Mr. Radpants by ending the year with a balance over $10M you essentially lost your profit sharing, just so you know. It would behoove you to spend as much money as possible and hopefully go over budget by a fair amount too!
Your revenue was 128.3, your budget is now 130
Yankee151
Hot Girl Summer
Yea your player expenses drop from 139 to 95 next year (before any extensions you offer yadda yadda) so heck, even if you dont make the playoffs, you'd take a loss this year and be fine the year after that. You don't have to tell me but I'll wager a guess that your "Money available for extensions" is much much higher than your "money available for FA" because next year you're essentially guaranteed a profit (if no expenses are added).
If anything if I'm you just cut all scouting this year so that you won't lose more than $10mm and thus will be covered by cash.
Yankee151
Hot Girl Summer
Yea it seems next-year budgets are (Regular Revenue) + (Small owner influence) + (Small amount of profit influence [otherwise why did Bruin have less budget than regular revenue while being the only one to not turn a profit]). Maybe going cheap on attendance is just the way to go, I had 40k per game and made a lot of money because of that
I can't offer extensions because I the owner has me in the red. Hopefully ticket sales will be good. Although fan interest stayed at 87 even though I made the playoffs. Worst case scenario is I lower scouting this year. Try and draft only slot guys so my draft expense is lowered.
First. Won 113 games.
Be careful not to go over your budget more than revenue sharing or you'll lose cash
Mr. Radpants
Trog Five Standing By
I think I would pay you like $10 real money per month to be my outsourced OOTP CFO. You focus on the maths and let me focus on the greens and blues.
That's hard to do, lol. Look at Little Rock or lisbon last year. They botched it pretty hard and between the $10M cash to start and the revenue sharing they're fine.
Yankee151
Hot Girl Summer
Hmm yea I think you're right, what I said would only apply if you made playoff revenue. So if you weren't in the red you would be able to offer big extensions but not take on any salary for this year.
Keep in mind draft expenses are fixed (yes it sucks), it's already taken out as an expense even if you dont spend the entire amount. (at least it was in previous versons)
What about this year? You cut it close and it snowballs. Lisbon is not fine at all haha. They need to up their revenue pretty badly or theyre gonna lose some cash i bet. I think they will so it's fine but we've had teams go as much as $19M in the red
Yankee151
Hot Girl Summer
Little Rock's budget would've been (slightly) higher had he actually made a profit though. You can see he was the only team to make a loss and the only team to have regular revenue be MORE than budget (everyone else has like 1 to 3 million more). So you can't necessarily make a loss after cash and go up in budget based on your revenue
ZackMills
Have mercy
Yankee151
Hot Girl Summer
If Lisbon does nothing to increase revenues this year they will start the following year with $-9m in cash+Revenue sharing as their cash. Revenue sharing for them will probably be around 9m so they may end up with zero cash the following year. Right now their proj balance is -$9mm so hopefully that makes sense
Little Rock will be down to only $7mm cash+Rev sharing so they are also in that spot. However, SF, ND, and IST will all get 10m in cash back since our proj balances are positive and we arent spending cash to pay down debts. I will lose literally $73m to my owner this year, oh well sucks. LR is actually in the 'optimal' scenario since they are spending the most possible while not losing cash for the following year (though it does leave them with very little to spend on FA)
So basically the things the three of us (me being the extreme example since my expenses are like 20m total) can do is spend on FA, IFA, draft picks, or send up to 10m in cash, if we dont we lose money to our owners. However, if we spend too much we end up like Lisbon or LR who will hamfist their future cash reserves if they dont hit that end balance of $10m. (If you want an example, Cairo had an end balance of 8.8mm last year and start out with only $6m in cash after rev sharing) so having a end balance of 10m or X+Rev sharing is important for us smaller teams' future prospects.
Little Rock will be down to only $7mm cash+Rev sharing so they are also in that spot. However, SF, ND, and IST will all get 10m in cash back since our proj balances are positive and we arent spending cash to pay down debts. I will lose literally $73m to my owner this year, oh well sucks. LR is actually in the 'optimal' scenario since they are spending the most possible while not losing cash for the following year (though it does leave them with very little to spend on FA)
So basically the things the three of us (me being the extreme example since my expenses are like 20m total) can do is spend on FA, IFA, draft picks, or send up to 10m in cash, if we dont we lose money to our owners. However, if we spend too much we end up like Lisbon or LR who will hamfist their future cash reserves if they dont hit that end balance of $10m. (If you want an example, Cairo had an end balance of 8.8mm last year and start out with only $6m in cash after rev sharing) so having a end balance of 10m or X+Rev sharing is important for us smaller teams' future prospects.
I'm just saying that since Lisbon started +10M cash like they are and with the bottom teams anticipating like $8-11M in revenue sharing, they have a nice safety buffer. If I were Lisbon, I'd set my personal salary cap at expected revenue +10M and try to run a $10M deficit that will be replaced by revenue sharing and leave me with a balance around $10M to start next year with.
So teams can spend 10M over their budgets and pay for it after the season either with cash or profits. We can increase that credit line.
If they dont make it in profits they will have to use cash. When they do that they wont have that credit line next year. If they use the full credit line, revenue sharing can help but i dont think anyone gets over 10M do they?
If they dont make it in profits they will have to use cash. When they do that they wont have that credit line next year. If they use the full credit line, revenue sharing can help but i dont think anyone gets over 10M do they?
Yankee151
Hot Girl Summer
They are doing this right now essentially, they will lose9m in cash before rev sharing so will end up with like 1m in cash next year. Revenue sharing is added to the next year's Cash which is why LR had a -1m loss last year but still has 9m in cash (+11m in rev sharing for this year)
Yankee151
Hot Girl Summer
Bruin got 11m in rev sharing with the lowest revenue and budget, that's the most extreme I've seen. Revenue sharing certainly allows poorer teams to run deficits but only for a year like you said.
Better not do that with contracts, can really screw you. Going after IFA I agree though.
Yeah it looks like bruin wiped out his cash last year and still had 1.8M debt left to pay. Revenue sharing only could bring his cash back to 9.4M.
It's harder for teams like Little Rock to go negative, but if a team in the middle of the pack had expenses too high it could run them into the negatives really quick.
I accidentally had my Dev budget set way too high anyway ($18M) so I have more room than anyone but you. If I end up cash poor for a year I can just cut the Scout budget for a season and work with what OSA gives me, that's my safety net.
for brun it is 1.2+9.4
He lose 10.6M and still have 10M in cash left.
Lost 10.6
Cash of 9.4 pays it.
Balance going into next year of -1.2
revenue sharing of 11.2 pays the excess and dumps the final 10 into cash.
stay woke
That's what I'm doing anyway, my scout blows. I only need him to find talent overseas I can use OSA for the rest.
Lloyd Carr
Well-Known Member
Can I get a tldr?
So like I said, teams who will receive revenue sharing should never operate at a profit (if they started with $10M Cash), because the most cash they can carry forward the next year is $10M. Any profit would be taken by the owner and then the revenue sharing would also be taken by the owner. They should try to operate at a loss of about what they'd expect in revenue sharing, to keep themselves as close to that $10M cash mark as possible. If you fuck it up, you can always slash costs the next year to generate profit and be back to $10M in a year.
Just keep doing what you are doing, lol. You've accidentally been working the system all along.
Yankee151
Hot Girl Summer
Close, I think it was he had a loss of 11.8, his cash would've been -1.8 (assuming he had $10mm in cash last season but it may have been lower) but the revenue sharing gave him 11.2 and it evened out to 9.4 (-1.8+11.2) So it was an excess of 9.4 rather than 10mm which is why that's his cash amount this year Essentially add cash to a total loss if necessary, then the following year the revenue sharing bumps up or down your cash pool. e.g why Cairo only has 6m in cash this year despite an 8m balance last year, they had 8m cash-their 2m paid in rev sharing
Yankee151
Hot Girl Summer
if you dont make the playoffs you will lose have -5m cash - revenue sharing next year so will probably have a -8m debt or so, if you do make the playoffs though you most likely won't have any problems since bare minimum playoff revenue seems to be like 5.5m which is more than your projected balance loss.
TLDR TLDR, Make playoffs and you dont have negative cash next year(may not be 10m howerver), dont and you probably have like -8m in cash
I was using numbers for this upcoming year