No wonder @OU11 gave no shits for our conservative budgeting reasoning @Travis7401
As it stands, Yankee and I received nothing from revenue sharing, for instance, because we already had more than the $10M max cash so our owner just took it. Is that how we want this to work?
Yeah, you are going to get $10M cash no matter what, basically. The lower level teams can hemorrhage cash and will be saved by revenue sharing. The upper level teams will generate plenty of revenue even if they don't make the playoffs, so their budgets stay high regardless, since budget is based on Pre-playoff revenue.
Look at Cairo as an example of the only team from last season that ended in such a way that punished them at all. They finished the seasona $1.1M loss had to pay $2.7M in revenue sharing, so their cash going forward was only $6.2M. So for being fiscally irresponsible they only lost $4M in cash. Even if you fuck the pooch completely, my assumption is you just start at $0 cash?
I'm not suggesting changes, just trying to understand how the system works. I just hope you won't be upset when I send someone $40M in cash because I can.
The idea is if you're going to make the playoffs you get an extra 15mm (or whatever playoff money is, idk since I never make the playoffs) to spend on payroll in anticipation of making the playoffs so you can come in under 10mm. The money only disappears into thin air if you dont spend it, if you do it's fine.
Like you cant say there's no incentive to running a big profit when I got a 16mm budget increase while going 50-112 on the season, there is obviously a benefit it's just not a cash one. If I wanted to compete this year I could get every FA because I have the room for it. There is certainly a benefit to having 80mm in cash to sign FAs with no matter how you slice it, if we upped the cash I would have 120mm to spend on FAs.
If you make the playoffs then your budget the next year will increase relative to what you would've gotten had you not, simply due to the fact that your profit margin will be larger (or your loss margin lessened)
I think I saw the graph but can't find it in the 3 threads we are using now
Alright I'm looking at this and I want to see somethingI'll post my numbers because I don't care. Go through and add subtract expenses and revenue and it is plain as day what is going on. It is the same for every team, if you can't see the numbers of other teams and they are starting way higher than you just know that it is because their revenues are higher and their expenses are lower. Once the season starts that will change dramatically because of payroll
Why can I only send $10M/year, that part I don't understand. Lets say I want to send Cash to someone like Osick who is cash poor. Why can't I send him $20M of my 2050 budget, hypothetically speaking, so that he can afford to sign some draft picks and target some free agents and such. Is there a restriction on that of $10M/year as well?
It should also be noted that the way we have it set up, there is very little financial incentive for making the playoffs vs not making the playoffs, as your owner will almost always just pocket the playoff money. I'm not saying I'm opposed to this, I'm just mentioning it because I've seen people mention "needing to make the playoffs." Teams that are in the playoff hunt at least generally hit their revenue target and will at worst take a small cash hit due to revenue sharing. Whereas the teams who go to the finals and generate $20+ Million cannot take advantage of that with the $10M cap.
Alright I'm looking at this and I want to see something
The end balance is certainly affected by playoff Rev. Last year OU's end balance would've been 21mm~ if not for the playoff rev. So that makes my question, What if he was short? Like what if he had more expenses than revenue and didn't make the playoffs vs if he does? You can tell that the next year's starting balance (10m cash after rev sharing and owner floor) uses the previous year in calculation (only to the point where it can get 10m), so if you hit the floor you are going to have less than 10m right?
It still appears that starting balance is Base Revenues + Cash - Base Expenses, if so a negative in cash (by not making enough playoff revenue) would affect that I think. I understand Osick's decision to hide his stuff but I'd be interested to see if that affected him any because I know he's in a tight spot right now, would he be even worse without playoff rev or not?
I understand it 'disappears' if you are running a profit like OU is, but what about if the playoff revenue is the only thing that puts you over?
As long as you are in the playoff hunt, you are very likely generating enough revenue to meet your expectations, since they don't consider playoff revenue, and at least come close to your budget. You can see @osick87 s regular season revenue was $150M and his expenses were $156M. If he didn't make the playoffs, his revenue sharing would have been equivalent to the Buffalo Murricans 2.1 M number (based on their 150M revenue). That means at worst, he would have started this season with about $2M (10-6-2) cash had he not made the playoffs. He was running the highest payroll in the league as well as high scout/dev budgets, spending all his cash, so even going "all in" on making the playoffs, the worst that could have happened would be starting with $8M less cash this season. I'm not actually sure that's what happens though, as his owner could potentially just put cash in to get him up to that $10M mark since he's historically run a surplus?
So I can send $10M in cash, right?
Right the important thing is that he only made a profit because of playoff revenues, so they are importantNo, owners are supposed to be out of it. Only way the owner puts money in is if you start with less than $10M and make enough for him to put it back. Osick made $15M in profit last year (excluding cash) so he covered his expenses in the end.
If he had missed the playoffs he would have started with $2M cash and in a hole that would require him to make $165Mish to get out of.
I just disagree that there is no incentive to making the playoffs, if Osick didn't make the playoffs this year he'd be in a worse situation I think, $5mm of his cash would've been used to pay down the loss (his rev would've been 151 to expenses of 156) and thus he'd have $5m less in starting cash this year (see Cairo, Lisbon, LR as other teams who started out with less cash this year) so his proj balance would be even worse (his payroll went up like 2mm as well but that's not really relevant to the macro portion of this
Basically he ended on $25mm(15m profit +10m cash) last year in balance, without the 20 from playoffs he would have $5mm(subtract the 20m he got from playoff revenue and spend 5m of the 10m in cash to pay off the -5mm debt) and thus only that much in cash (Actually even less with rev sharing, he'd start with negative cash).
Playoff revenues don't matter if you aren't running a loss in the regular revenue-expenses department, but it matters if you are.
Yes. If you trade with someone you can send 10M cash. If you're trying to just send 10M because you think the financial system sucks then whatever. I honestly don't care
Making the playoffs is crucial for teams like BA, and is pretty necessary for teams like Orlando and myself. When you're in 1-3rd throughout the season your attendance is higher. If you do what I did you lose 16% year over year or whatever it was and lose $16M on your budget.
I just think it sucks that Osick made the shampionship game and is still facing budgetary problems because his owner took the money. He was profitable last season and he's been capped by his regular season revenue only.
Helsingborg way under performed expectations last season and still made $2M profit. I just don't think it is as sensitive as you make it out to be.
The cash is also money above your budget. So you have $180mm to spend with $10mm being cash.Because you only have $10M in cash. Your budget is what you can spend, not what you have. I'll try to break it down like this, your owner says you made him $170M last year, he'll allow you to spend $170 this year. It doesn't mean you have that in cash, it means he'll back your costs up to $170M
He's not going to just give you that in cash money so you can go blow it in vegas
Lol my budget was lowered after making the ship.I just think it sucks that Osick made the shampionship game and is still facing budgetary problems because his owner took the money. He was profitable last season and he's been capped by his regular season revenue only.
Lol my budget was lowered after making the ship.
If he misses the playoffs again he will lose $7m in cash plus rev sharing. He had enough budget room ($2m in profit+$10m in cash) to squeeze out a profit and keep $10m for the next year. If we up cash to $20m now Orlando gets $10.5mm or something since that is what was left over after rev sharingHelsingborg way under performed expectations last season and still made $2M profit. I just don't think it is as sensitive as you make it out to be. Decade long losing streak or something may sink you as fan support and attendance drops, but obviously missing the playoffs doesn't kill you even for a team like Borg.
Here is the deal. They base the budgets on the revenue they can expect which is regular season. IF you cut it close like osick has, you must make the playoffs to make sure you don't start out in the hole the next year.
Yes it is fair for osick to be strained, any team run like a business would which is what we have the settings as. His expenses are $20M higher than his revenue.
Where is this hard to understand?
So for teams who do not have the talent to compete yet, and only need about 30% of their budget to meat their revenue expectations, what would you suggest they do with the rest?